CincyBattletech
General Category => Other Games => Shadowrun => Topic started by: Darrian Wolffe on August 24, 2010, 07:54:39 PM
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OK, since Mike and Travis are TOTALLY AWESOME and are taking the BT campaign to the shores of Tripoli (or thereabouts), it means that I have time to run a Shadowrun campaign. Now, I'm aware that I've not GM'd an RPG for any of you before, so here's how I tend to handle these:
I'm willing to run an RPG under certain conditions. These conditions are largely due to the fact that running an RPG is a whole lot of work - well over and above running a BT campaign. As such, it needs to be fun for me as well as you, and there's some things that make it "not fun" for me.
1) Trust me as a GM. This is normally an issue with new groups. You guys know me, and, theoretically at least, you should know that I won't dick over characters for no reason.
2) Work with my setting and power level requests. I will NOT dictate plot to you guys - you'll be free to go and do what you want. But creating characters that deliberately break the setting and desired power level of the game (I've seen RPG players that try stuff equivalent to having a 0/0 Warhawk C driver in 3025) are going to make it not fun for me. When I don't have fun, I either stop running stuff, or try to find fun by doing things to your characters that amuse me. I have had Herb tell me I'm too cruel to players. That should indicate something.
3) Make the game a commitment. We're all (again, theoretically) adults. Life happens. But if you say that you can make a game on a given night, then you need to be there on that night. Whereas in a 10-person BT group we can get by without one person, in a 4-5 player RPG group that loss hurts a LOT more, and the loss of even 2 people means that we won't even play that night. Additionally, my prep work for a BT game might be 2-3 hours. Prep work for an RPG will be generally double that, at least, which means that by not being able to play, a great deal of my time is wasted. Since I work on an hourly basis, I may just bill you for the time. If you can't make a game, be very aggressive about letting us know ahead of time.
With all the dire warnings out of the way, what I plan to run is a campaign set in the 2050s Shadowrun setting, using the 4th edition (25th anniversary) rules. It's an old-school, 1980's-style cyberpunk setting with the latest flavor of rules (in their most-cleaned up form since...well, ever). Who's up for it? Right now, I'm willing to work up to a 6-player game, with 4-players at a minimum.
For anybody who doesn't know what Shadowrun is, here's here's the blurb:
"The year is 2052. The world is changed, some say Awakened.
A long lull in the mystical energies of the universe has subsided and magic has returned to the world. Elves, dwarfs, orks and trolls have assumed their true forms, throwing off their human guises. Creatures of the wild have changed as well, transforming into beasts of myth and legend. The many traditions of magic have come back to life, and shamans and mages have carved out a place in the new world for themselves and their powers. Many aspects of the Awakening remain mysteries, but modern society fights on to assimilate the
ways of magic into a technological world.
The decades that followed the Awakening were years of panic and turmoil, as the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse seemed to race across the Earth. Cultures that had never lost touch with their mystical pasts began to use magic against the great nations that had suppressed
them for so long. The vast global telecommunications network collapsed under an assault by a mysterious computer virus. Dragons soared into the skies. Epidemics and famine ravaged the world’s population. Clashes between newly Awakened races and the rest of humanity became common. All central authority crumbled, and the world began to spiral
downward into the abyss.
But man and his kin are hearty animals. Out of the devastation and chaos, a fragile new social order slowly emerged. Advanced simulated sensorium (simsense) technology helped eradicate the last vestiges of the computer virus and replaced the old telecommunications network
with the new virtual-reality world of the Matrix. Amerindians, elves, orks and dwarfs formed new nations. Where environmental degradation and pollution have made many areas uninhabitable, eco-groups wage war on polluters, and Awakened powers use incredible magics to heal the earth. Central governments have balkanized into smaller nations and city-states, as fear of the world’s changes drives wedges between people of different backgrounds.
Vast metropolitan sprawls known as metroplexes cover the landscape; these urban jungles swallow whole regions. Police departments unable to contain crime waves and civil unrest have been privatized or their work contracted out to corporations
Megacorporations have become the new world superpowers, a law unto themselves. The entire planet speaks their language, as the nuyen has become the global monetary standard. The megacorps play a deadly game, paying pawns in the shadows to help them get an edge on the competition. Meanwhile, corporate executives and wage slaves hole up in
their own enclaves, safe behind layers of security and indoctrination.
Outside the walls of these arcologies and gated communities, whole stretches of the sprawls have become ungovernable. Gangs rule the streets; the forgotten masses grow, lacking even a System Identification Number (SIN) to give them any rights. These outcasts, dissidents and rebels live as the dregs of society, squatting in long-abandoned buildings,
surviving through crime and predatory instincts. Many of them attempt to rise above their miserable existences by slotting addictive BTL (Better-Than-Life) chips, living vicariously through someone else’s senses. Others band together, some for survival and some to gain their own twisted forms of power.
Technology, too, has changed people. No longer merely flesh, many have turned to the artificial enhancements of cyberware to make themselves more than human. Some acquire implants that allow them to directly interface with machines, like deckers who run the Matrix with a cyberdeck and programs or riggers who jack into vehicles or security systems and become one with them. Others seek to push the envelope of
their physical capabilities, testing themselves on the streets against other street samurai. The human of 2052 is stronger, smarter, faster than his predecessors.
In the world of 2052, the metroplexes are monsters that cast long shadows. And in the cracks between the giant corporate structures, shadowrunners find their homes. Entire societies live and die in a black-market underworld, exploited and abused, yet powerful in their own way. The Mafia, Yakuza and other crime syndicates have grown explosively as their networks provide anything that people will buy. Shadowrunners
are the professionals of this culture where self-sufficiency is vital. When the megacorps want a job done but don’t want to dirty their hands, they need a shadowrun, and they turn to the only people who can pull it off: the shadowrunners. Though only the blackest of governmental or corporate databases even registers a shadowrunner’s existence, the demand for his or her services is high. Deckers can slide like a whisper through the databases of giant corporations, spiriting away the only thing of real value—information. Street samurai are enforcers for hire whose combat skills and reflexes make them the ultimate urban predators. Riggers can manipulate vehicles and drones for a variety of purposes. Magicians, those rare folk who possess the gift of wielding and shaping the magical energies that now surround the Earth, are sought after to spy on the competition, sling spells against an enemy, commit magical sabotage, and for any other purpose that their employers can dream up. All these individuals sell their skills to survive, taking on the tasks too illegal or dangerous for others to dare."
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I'm probably in dependent on times that everyone decides to play - I'll also need help with character generation
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Hoi, Chummmer. I am ready to run in the 'plex, For the Slot and Run, I'm in.
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I might consider it. Depends on how you are handling the Matrix, lame incalculably unlikely wireless
mesh network or DNI fiberoptics. That and I need to check with she who makes plans as to good days.
For what it's worth Alpha Omega as a system does cyberpunk way better and is more balanced than SR4A. That might be my bias and dislike of the magic IWIN button. "Force 9 Stunball! The combat monster passes out...".
*dice rattle*
"I take zero drain."
I'm pretty sure that's the mnchy crap you don't like
so I may be in depending on day and time.
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I might consider it.
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I'm pretty sure that's the mnchy crap you don't like
so I may be in depending on day and time.
Well, a couple things...
Partially, this game is to get Dan, myself, and possibly Travis up to speed on the SR4 mechanics, because we need to be able to demo SR4 games for CGL, so we're gonna have to use the listed SR4 mechanics. That includes things like Wireless Matrix.
HOWEVER
I FAR prefer the flavor of 1-2e Shadowrun. Yeah, Deckers can go wireless (we'll call them Deckers instead of Hackers because in my universe, the nickname for a commlink is a "deck" due to its flattened viewscreen...and because Hackers reminds me of the movie, and I HATE being reminded of that movie), but I'm looking for a lot more William Gibson in my game and a lot less Ghost in the Shell. I can't promise there won't be BattleMechs, though. I've done that in SR before...
Further, remember what I said up there about breaking the game? A) A PC who can routinely (dumb luck doesn't count, or does excessive Karma expenditure to get that ONE spell off) rattle off an F9 spell with zero drain is either immensely experienced (in which case, he'll need that sort of firepower with what I send experienced runners through), or B) Not experienced, and therefore built in such a manner as to deliberately break the game. When people break the game, I do bad things to them. Enforcing the street credo of "geek the mage first", for example. Or snipers. With that same credo. Or dedicated counterspell mages. Or some essence-draining Vampires who hear about the badass mage and realize that he's probably the most delicious thing around. Or Deadly damage of any sort (medical care can drain off Magic points). Or if he horks off enough people, somebody might break into the apartment and leave a hunk of a play-doh-looking substance with a digital timer in it, with a note attached that says "you probably want to retire". Or, hell, the corporate wage-mage who's been fighting against those damn dirty shadowrunners just a BIT longer than this guy's been running them...and thus can cast spells at an equal or greater Force right back at him.
I guess this comes back to the first thing I posted. "Trust me as a GM". If you want to play a Cyberpunk game, give it a shot. I've been running groups through the shadows since 1992. I've heard the complaints about the "magic IWIN" button since before I was in high school. I've not found that to be the case given two things: 1) a game world in which people are assumed to be intelligent and will react appropriately to threats, perceived or actual, and B) a GM that is willing to kill characters when their actions or verisimilitude demands it.
In my Shadowrun games, you'll get both.
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I'll have to clear it with she who makes plans* but I'm probably in. I find the wireless Matrix to be lame as I'm sure Dan does. It is possible to make munchy F9 chuckers at 400 BP, however that's why I don't read Dumpshock often.
The IWIN comes from the detail that per RAW mundanes can't detect who the mage is and it's not like they can resist the spell anyhow. I'd probably go combat decker if you'll have me. I have a classic concept involving large amounts of late 20th pop culture and a secure armored "vintage" Ramones shirt.
*Note: She who makes plans may also wish to join. I'm also willing to offer space for players since I'm fairly well setup for large games.
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I'll have to clear it with she who makes plans* but I'm probably in. I find the wireless Matrix to be lame as I'm sure Dan does. It is possible to make munchy F9 chuckers at 400 BP, however that's why I don't read Dumpshock often.
The IWIN comes from the detail that per RAW mundanes can't detect who the mage is and it's not like they can resist the spell anyhow. I'd probably go combat decker if you'll have me. I have a classic concept involving large amounts of late 20th pop culture and a secure armored "vintage" Ramones shirt.
*Note: She who makes plans may also wish to join. I'm also willing to offer space for players since I'm fairly well setup for large games.
Remember, just because something is legal by the rules doesn't mean the GM is ever required to allow it. I generally save this Rule Zero warning for people who are way, WAY beyond the power level that I'm willing to run with. Once we have a group and get together, I plan a character generation session where we can decide on a group power level (limiting Initiative passes, spell forces, etc). I will never run a game where I just say "here, make a rules-legal PC and I won't review it or anything before we start play".
As for space, we may take you up on that...at least until I get moved into my own house (Covington). We've got a 2-family, and the lower level is being deliberately set up as a gathering space for gamers/friends.
(I'm not a huge fan of Wireless Matrix either in practice, although I do appreciate the fact that they make Deckers playable characters by allowing them to DO STUFF in the real world while they're in the Matrix. It makes almost no sense, setting-wise, but it really does make the game play better than the old rules - either have an NPC decker or everybody else sits for an hour and does nothing while the decker does his thing. It's playability over verisimilitude by a LARGE margin...but it DOES end up being playable. The alternative to Wireless Matrix would be that nobody plays a Decker at all - I allow two simultaneous planes of existence at my table, and usually the party prefers having access to the Astral over having access to the Matrix.)
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We currently have a 5x4 table in a dedicated space. The Emmisary arrives in February.
Congratulations on your house btw. I offered because I thought you guys were in an apartment currently and thus a bit tight on space.
The wireless smartlink and mages taking a 1 point essence hit for cybereyes would be my personal annoyance. Wireless smartlink with no essence cost means the awakened don't have to compromise and that's an alarming precedent.
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The wireless smartlink and mages taking a 1 point essence hit for cybereyes would be my personal annoyance. Wireless smartlink with no essence cost means the awakened don't have to compromise and that's an alarming precedent.
Could you elucidate a bit more on this? I'm not up to speed with all the various way to break 4e yet (but try a Jack B Quick build in my 3e game and I'll drop a damn orbitally-deployed cow on your PC).
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The wireless smartlink and mages taking a 1 point essence hit for cybereyes would be my personal annoyance. Wireless smartlink with no essence cost means the awakened don't have to compromise and that's an alarming precedent.
Could you elucidate a bit more on this? I'm not up to speed with all the various way to break 4e yet (but try a Jack B Quick build in my 3e game and I'll drop a damn orbitally-deployed cow on your PC).
Question - what happens if we totally, inadvertently break the system? I have no intention of doing so, but Weird Shit tends to happen when I'm around.
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In my experience, part of the issue is that, for much of SR4, the non-implanted gear is every bit as good as the implanted gear, and (of course) costs no Essence. Many folks have found direct-damage dealing mages to be overpowered by nature (I'd strongly suggest the common "don't cut Force in half when doing the math for Drain" house rule, myself), and the technological advances of non-implanted gear is like the frosting on the cake of magic being overwhelming.
Where in previous editions the actual Smartlink cyberware was awesome and the smartgoggles, etc, were in many ways pale imitations...in SR4, in terms of direct attack modifiers, the Adept or Mage with some Smartlink-contact lenses is getting the same bonus as the guy who took an Essence hit. So much so, in fact, that the entirety of text dealing with the Smartlink (cyberware) is "This is an implanted version of the Smartlink electronics doohickey in page ___."
Now, implanted Smartlinks still give you the old tertiary bonuses (being able to reload, change firing mode, etc, via mental command) that can, in the long run, make a big difference in the life of a gunbunny...but to many players it still rankles that for the main job of a Smartlink -- making you better at shooting people in the face -- folks without cyberware get the exact same bonus dice.
PS: I hate you all for not starting a Shadowrun game until I'm 1,000 miles away, and while I deeply have Shadowrun on the brain because I'm freelancing for them.
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Question - what happens if we totally, inadvertently break the system? I have no intention of doing so, but Weird Shit tends to happen when I'm around.
We talk about it like rational people and find a way to rebuild the character that both doesn't break the system AND keeps as much of your existing PC as possible. Crazy and visionary, I know. :P
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The wireless smartlink and mages taking a 1 point essence hit for cybereyes would be my personal annoyance. Wireless smartlink with no essence cost means the awakened don't have to compromise and that's an alarming precedent.
Could you elucidate a bit more on this? I'm not up to speed with all the various way to break 4e yet (but try a Jack B Quick build in my 3e game and I'll drop a damn orbitally-deployed cow on your PC).
Er what Critias said. Presumably the same Critias of DSF fame?
Pretty much smartlink contact lenses give the same 2 dice as the cyberware for less nuyen and zero essence. Essentially the one thing that sams could have commonly that mages couldn't is gone in a blink.
A mage who does a full cyber replacement of their eyes can still cast even though they are technically looking through a camera. This means that low light conditions or even zero light doesn't hamper, casting as most mages will gouge their eyes out and install cameras with low-light and thermo modes. They will then spend a hefty 2 karma to initiate and get that point of magic back. I interpret the cyber-eyes thing a bit differently. You don't have natural eyes? You can't see your target to get line of effect. The official FAQ and I believe Adam (before the Debacle of 2010) confirm the DSF interpretation instead of mine.
I'm also notable as a bastard GM. My players once even wrote a song about my bastardry. I believe that was in the mounted chivalry campaign when I tripped one of their warhorses with a hit die advanced worg. Note: the rider failed his DC 30 soft fall check and pretty much mission-killed himself in the landing.
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It's nice to see you on the forums around here Rusty!
Texas is awesome isn't it? Screw Herb.
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Now, implanted Smartlinks still give you the old tertiary bonuses (being able to reload, change firing mode, etc, via mental command) that can, in the long run, make a big difference in the life of a gunbunny...but to many players it still rankles that for the main job of a Smartlink -- making you better at shooting people in the face -- folks without cyberware get the exact same bonus dice.
Now you made me dig out my frakking dusty book.
I don't see where the tertiary functions are disallowed with smart contact lenses. Is that clarified in the FAQ or non-existant errata? Mind you I'm going from a SR4 not SR4A copy. I obviously didn't feel the need to pick up 4A when I wasn't running it and had switched to a different system for my home game's dystopian future campaign.
edit: grammar good!
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Question - what happens if we totally, inadvertently break the system? I have no intention of doing so, but Weird Shit tends to happen when I'm around.
We talk about it like rational people and find a way to rebuild the character that both doesn't break the system AND keeps as much of your existing PC as possible. Crazy and visionary, I know. :P
So no Thor-shot followed by Pope frantically re-rolling? I am dissapoint.
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It's nice to see you on the forums around here Rusty!
Texas is awesome isn't it? Screw Herb.
Thanks, man. Yeah, the Lone Star's been great to me so far. It's been fun seeing some of it from a motorcycle, too. ;D Great roads for riding on, that's for sure. And yeah, that whole...thing...over at CBT just kind of rubbed me the wrong way. Oh well. I'll keep laying low for a while, yadda yadda yadda, and won't be submitting any fiction to 'em any time soon, I guess.
Presumably the same Critias of DSF fame?
Yup, that's me. And over on the Privateer Press forums, and Glocktalk, and...yeah. I try to use the same user name everywhere I go, and tend to have good luck about it not bein' taken yet. :)
Back to smartlinks/cybereyes: Personally, I don't see how someone with contact lenses or cool sunglasses can get those other smartlink bonuses. I guess one could argue that a "mental command" could be sent via contact lenses if you blink your eyes three times to eject the magazine from your smartgun, or something...but how do you do it with goggles, or glasses, and would the GM then have you start switching your firing mode, dropping your magazine, or firing your gun whenever something made you blink? ;)
It's a "common sense" ruling on my part, but I only let folds with implanted smartlinks get some of those little extras. The heads-up display on goggles can sure tell you how much ammunition is left in a magazine, let you do the guncam thing, and displays where the gun's pointed (to get you that +2 dice)...but I don't see how it lets you change from semi-auto to burst-fire. I'll readily admit that it's only MY take on things, and that my take doesn't matter in this conversation since I'm not even playing in the game -- just sharing my thoughts, is all.
I do want to point out that the mage with cybereyes is nothing new to SR4, or 4A. Mages have always been able to -- if they so choose -- dabble in cyberware, and be able to cast spells through most implanted cyberoptics (they paid their Essence and earned their boost). Given how attributes are payed for in 4th, it's not as good an idea as it used to be...buying the extra-steep "6" in Magic only to then knock it down a peg just so you can see in the dark isn't always a great trade-off. I like Mages having the option to make that trade, and I don't think it's that that makes them potentially overpowering.
I think it's more just...well...the nature of direct combat spells in SR4, and the declining dangers of Drain from edition to edition. It's worth pointing out, also, that in the long run I think Possession traditions are potentially quite a bit more game-breaking than direct combat spells, but that's a different ball of wax entirely. I don't think you guys will run afoul of some of the munchkinny douchebaggery the way other groups might, but it's still stuff to keep an eye out for.
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What, you don't think my voodoo spirit summoning mage with only 2 spells works. (those 2 spells being destroy guns and destroy comlinks). Wait, that was a broken GM character from one of the scrambles.
Yes mages can quickly become broken with direct combat spells. However, we as I group are mature enough to not min max unless we want to get blown out of the water.
The real way to look at this is like Herb views ATOW. Any system can be minmaxed, and its not the job of the system to prevent this. Its a mutual decision made between a GM and players on how they want to play the game.
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The real way to look at this is like Herb views ATOW. Any system can be minmaxed, and its not the job of the system to prevent this. Its a mutual decision made between a GM and players on how they want to play the game.
(http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n294/wolffe42/Reactions/29zonzt.jpg)
(And if the mutual decision doesn't work, I'll always have Cows From Orbit.)
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Question - what happens if we totally, inadvertently break the system? I have no intention of doing so, but Weird Shit tends to happen when I'm around.
We talk about it like rational people and find a way to rebuild the character that both doesn't break the system AND keeps as much of your existing PC as possible. Crazy and visionary, I know. :P
WHAT?! Reasonable discussion around the game table?! RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE.
Thats what I figured - but you never know when Lofwyr has a bib and some BBQ sauce around.
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(http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n294/wolffe42/Reactions/29zonzt.jpg)
< Looks at chest> That can't be right, I don't have a PPC growing out of my torso.
But undershadowrun rules, I could get close.
(Why yes, this is a Btech site primary)
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Is it wrong that when I run into a guy at the gas station occasionally wearing a Hyde Park Painting and Carpentry shirt and my brain immediately wonders how he has a HPPC this early in the timeline?
Other SR4 issues to look out for, based on my reading of the system and perusing the munch-masters at DSF:
Firearms skills are lame and ill divided, even though suggested by RAW I believe "semi-automatic" should not be a specialization of pistols. Automatics is king since we all know firing an AR-15 (longarms) is totally different than firing an M-16 set to semi (automatics). As you know I've been a shooter for many years. I'm asininely pedantic about weapon classifications.
As Critias said the direct combat spells are a bit wonky. Stunball overcast is a TPK most of the time since it's really difficult to stage.
With optimization mages can get stupid, there's lots of stuff that can reduce drain or add drain dice. It's relatively easy to break 20 dice on drain tests.
Street Magic and Runner's Companion need to be burned down and then sunk in the swamp. Specifically all the furry SURGE crap and the following two spells: Orgy and Orgasm. Willpower resist at force hits or be useless for hours. DragonQuest earth mages look balanced.
Yup, that's me. And over on the Privateer Press forums, and Glocktalk, and...yeah. I try to use the same user name everywhere I go, and tend to have good luck about it not bein' taken yet. :)
Back to smartlinks/cybereyes: Personally, I don't see how someone with contact lenses or cool sunglasses can get those other smartlink bonuses. I guess one could argue that a "mental command" could be sent via contact lenses if you blink your eyes three times to eject the magazine from your smartgun, or something...but how do you do it with goggles, or glasses, and would the GM then have you start switching your firing mode, dropping your magazine, or firing your gun whenever something made you blink? ;)
I do want to point out that the mage with cybereyes is nothing new to SR4, or 4A. Mages have always been able to -- if they so choose -- dabble in cyberware, and be able to cast spells through most implanted cyberoptics (they paid their Essence and earned their boost). Given how attributes are payed for in 4th, it's not as good an idea as it used to be...buying the extra-steep "6" in Magic only to then knock it down a peg just so you can see in the dark isn't always a great trade-off. I like Mages having the option to make that trade, and I don't think it's that that makes them potentially overpowering.
I'd call the contact lens functions eyeball pointing with a double eye blink to select possible, heck it's possible with 2010 technology if you enjoy low wattage lasers on your eyeball. Not a huge fan of the whole mages with cybereyes thing. I think it's worse in SR4 since it's relatively cheap to buy Magic 5 at character generation, get your eyes that knock you down to 4 and then initiate after your first run for 2 karma to get back to Magic 5.
As a Walther shooter I stand in awe of Glocktalk, don't like Glocks but you guys did have Gecko45. And Gecko45 is awesome, how awesome? http://lonelymachines.org/mall-ninjas/ (http://lonelymachines.org/mall-ninjas/)
I'm also knightofargh pretty much everywhere, you may remember me from such conversations on DSF as trying to convince kerenshera that 9x19 isn't a light round. Light rounds are things like .25 ACP and 9x18.
edit: speeling
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As a Walther shooter I stand in awe of Glocktalk, don't like Glocks but you guys did have Gecko45. And Gecko45 is awesome, how awesome? http://lonelymachines.org/mall-ninjas/ (http://lonelymachines.org/mall-ninjas/)
Oh god...can't...stop...laughing...
Hurts my sides...crying from laughter...if I die...tell my wife...Hello...
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Figured at least one of us would appreciate the Shrine of the Mall Ninja™ as much as I do.
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She who makes the plans is in, and bringing KnightofArgh with me.
Now I'm actually going to have to read the 4e rules.
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She who makes the plans is in, and bringing KnightofArgh with me.
Now I'm actually going to have to read the 4e rules.
Cool. Can you get him to stop bitching about the rules long enough for me to read them and TRY to make them work in-game? ;) ;D
So that looks like a starting group of:
Mike
Dan
Brent
Brett
Rusty (in spirit at least - sorry man :-\ )
So, that's 4 people, enough to start the ball rolling. Anybody else? We'll talk over lunch this Saturday about stuffs...
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Cool. Can you get him to stop bitching about the rules long enough for me to read them and TRY to make them work in-game?
No one can stop my bitching! Don't make me rock out my ninja-tao on you...
You're planning on straight BBB for this game correct?
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You're planning on straight BBB for this game correct?
Not familiar with the acronym.
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Big Black Book, old school SR description for the core book.
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Rusty (in spirit at least - sorry man :-\ )
Hey, I can still offer emotional/canon/lore/whatever support, as needed. I'd pit my SR collection against...well...anyone's, anywhere, actually. ;D Just PM me if you have some obscure background questions or anything, man, or to pick my brain for horrible, monstrous, unholy, things to do to the poor, unsuspecting, bastards -- err, I mean, players.
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Rusty (in spirit at least - sorry man :-\ )
Hey, I can still offer emotional/canon/lore/whatever support, as needed. I'd pit my SR collection against...well...anyone's, anywhere, actually. ;D Just PM me if you have some obscure background questions or anything, man, or to pick my brain for horrible, monstrous, unholy, things to do to the poor, unsuspecting, bastards -- err, I mean, players.
Shadowrun
Type: File Folder
Location: C:\Gaming
Size: 4.30 GB (4,627,585,365 bytes)
Size on disk: 4.30 GB (4,628,271,104 bytes)
Contains: 333 files, 25 folders
Created: Tuesday, March 30, 2010, 8:28:31 AM
If you've got a canon published 1e, 2e, or 3e resource I DON'T have access to, I'll eat my hat. Well, no - I like my hat. I'll eat...something...
;)
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I've only got my 4th edition stuff in pdf, all my 1-3 is in sweet, glorious, hardcopy form...and, stacked atop each other, is over 5 feet tall.
Part of the packing/unpacking process was me organizing our game books to be boxed up, and then for fun comparing the height of each stack of books to my wife -- organized by company -- to see which one scored highest on the Felicia-o-meter. Our combined World of Darkness won out, but largely because it was a ton of Vampire and Werewolf stuff (plus a little Mage, Wraith, and Changeling), it was my and her collections, and because so many of their books are swanky, and thick, hardcovers.
For some reason, I did Earthdawn, Battletech, and Shadowrun all separately. Even not counting boxed sets, my FASA/Catalyst stack would have stomped White Wolf's ass, if I'd done it right. Suffice it to say I've got quite a few well-loved, dog-eared, old SR1 and SR2 books. ;) Shadowrun was my first RPG, ever, and it shows on my bookshelf. Hell, SR's how I met my wife. *grins* So while I'm sure you don't need it, the offer stands, is all I'm sayin'. If you just want to kick ideas around, you can get ahold of me.
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I've only got my 4th edition stuff in pdf, all my 1-3 is in sweet, glorious, hardcopy form...and, stacked atop each other, is over 5 feet tall.
Sweet, man. I've only got about 3 linear feet of Shadowrun (also 1-3e...I only own one copy of the 4e core book and none of the 4e supplements). You're probably who kept cleaning out the Half-price's around here of old SR stuff.
And I'll keep the offer in mind. I'll almost certainly be PMing you on occasion to make for "what can the players break" checks. :thumbs-up smiley:
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Dammit, now I want to run a giant crossover melee full of Earthdawn Adepts, Shadowrunners, and Mechwarriors against a bunch of angsty Werewolves and skinny Goth-kid Vampires.
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I'm in. Looking forward to playing something that isn't all magical samurai, all the time, for the first time in a while.
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I'm in. Looking forward to playing something that isn't all magical samurai, all the time, for the first time in a while.
Well we can make a magic samurai if you really want... ;D. Or, we could make a cyber enhanced samurai who has no soul, so a copy of any Crane out there.
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If you insist I can update Vector (aka The Orkbot 9000, now with more biostress!) to SR4A. I'd rather dust off the combat decker concept from a while back though.
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OK, fast headcount. It looks like we've got the following people for a campaign:
Mike
Travis
Brent
Brett
Rob Jordan
Is there ANYONE I'm missing?
Also, if possible, I'd like to get together THIS WEEK on Wednesday (9/1) at Brent/Brett's (to be known now collectively as BB) place, at 6:30pm, to to character creation. If that WILL NOT work for you, please post here ASAP. If that won't work for anyone - late notice, I know - see if the following week (9/8) will work for you.
Thanks!
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I know that Trav is out of town, and I believe that he is returning later than Wen night.
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This is correct, I am in New Orleans currently, visiting my sister (Goddess grant me patience). I will be out till 9/4 most likely.
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Wednesday should be fine. I'll PM my address to everyone later once I am not typing on my phone.
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This is correct, I am in New Orleans currently, visiting my sister (Goddess grant me patience). I will be out till 9/4 most likely.
OK, Travis, since you're the only one out, can I meet with you after you get back for a 1-on-1 character creation session?
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Location sent via PM. If anyone in the game didn't get it, contact me or post in here.
Closest landmark is the Frisch's Mainliner for those that are familiar with Mariemont and environs.
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Preliminary Shadowrun House Rules List
This is not exhaustive, and all rules are considered to be up for discussion on Wednesday night. All house rules are in ADDITION to the listed restrictions on character creation (so you're still limited to Availability 12 or less on equipment, 35 points of Disadvantages, and so forth)
THE GAME YEAR IS 2054
Character Creation
1) All PCs must begin play with at least 2 months of Low Lifestyle
2) No PC may start with more than 1 item of Alpha-grade cyberware. Cyberware items with multiple components (such as an eye with Image Magnification, UV vision, and Flare Compensators) count as 1 item, but ALL components therein must be Alpha-grade.
3) No PC may start with more than 1 item of Cultured Bioware.
4) Fake Licenses are attached to specific Fake SINs, and are broken down according to "type" or restricted or illegal item. So a character might have:
-Rating 4 SIN w/Rating 3 Pistol, Rating 2 Foci, and Rating 4 Fetish licenses
-Rating 3 SIN w/Rating 4 Cyber, Bioware, Explosives, Pistol, Submachinegun, and Longarm Licenses.
5) Weapon Specializations are by weapon model, not by weapon class. Thus, you could specialize in the "Ruger Warhawk" or "Ares Predator" (which would apply to an Ares Predator I, II, III, or IV), but not "Automatic Pistols" or "Revolvers". Various upgrades and sundry will have no effect on Weapon Specialization - an AK-98a1 with Suppressor, Folding Stock, and Laser Sight will gain the same Weapon Specialization bonus as an AK-98a2 with an underbarrel pistol grip and a smartlink. Note that the fluff descriptions may indicate that two weapons are the same model. If there is a question, please ask.
6) All PCs receive one FREE Rank 1/1 contact of their choosing, subject to GM approval (no...Lofwyr is NOT your contact). It is HIGHLY recommended that PCs start with multiple, fleshed-out contacts (between 2-5 contacts is safe).
Dice Caps
1) No skill may roll greater than 15 dice (so 16+ is out) at game-on. You may have combinations of Attribute+Skill+Cyber+whatever that add up to more than this...but you'll be capped at 15 dice at game-on. This cap is applied before situational modifiers. This cap will increase as the campaign goes longer.
Social Skill Modifiers from Cyber/Bioware
1) All characters will take a -??? Dice penalty for each FULL POINT of "visible" cyberware they have. "Visible" is defined as "when it's obvious you're sporting some 'ware". So Active Wired Reflexes will count toward this (but if you've got the cyber that shuts them down and they're turned off, they won't count), as will solid-silver cybereyes or a 'chromed cyberlimb with a gun on it. Dermal Plating might only count if you're in swim trunks. A Cerebral Booster pretty much won't count at all. This dice penalty will vary depending on the social situation. Talking to a wage drone might net you a -1 per point penalty, or talking to a philanthropist at a fancy dress ball might net a -2 or greater penalty...while talking to another Street Sam in a 'runner bar might be penalized only -1 per 2 points of cyber (there will always be a penalty of some sort...cyberware is inherently dehumanizing and part of the modifier doesn't just reflect the target's reaction to you, but how well you're able to engage with them as well).
The Matrix
1) The Wireless Matrix is new to the world of Shadowrun in 2050... Swathes of non-urban area are not likely to be Wireless-accessible (zone with a lower Security Rating than C, generally speaking), and the snootier AA or better Security Zones are going to have well-secured Wireless access, occasionally with jammers to cut it out completely. Headjacks are NOT dead yet...
-No, there are no cyberdecks - you're still using your commlink. Just ensure your commlink can talk to your headware (skinlinks are a good start) and you'll be good. Let's not overthink this, yeah?
2) You cannot roll more dice on a Matrix-related test than (2+3(Logic)) for Hackers, or (2+3(Resonance)) for Technomancers. This ensures that Matrix characters cannot TOTALLY dump their attributes.
EDGE
1) Edge does not automatically refresh at the beginning of a session or at dawn each day, but will refresh upon completion of in-game tasks, roleplaying moments, and/or GM's discretion. Thusly, having an Edge score greater than 1 or 2 is recommended.
General Gameplay
1) I don't do "exploits" of the system (hacking your guns or cyber, snipers everywhere, etc) unless a) you're running against a serious target and it makes sense in-universe to run into that sort of thing...or b) you do them first. Engaging in an arms race with the GM is usually futile. If you want to take advantage of an exploit, be SURE that you're willing to have it done back to you 2 or 3 sessions down the road.
2) There is a general cap of 3 Initiative Passes from any source (so Street Sams can have Wired Reflexes 2, etc). In NO circumstances may magic-users of any type place an Initiative-boosting or Reaction-enhancement spell into a Sustaining Focus. If additional hits on a spell would result in greater than 3 IPs, additional IPs are lost (Drain, etc is not affected). I recommend people try for around 2 IPs for all but the most heavily-chromed, speed-themed characters, and I won't have to break out high-init NPCs in return.
If you have questions or need clarification, please don't hesitate to ask, here or on Wednesday. These are NOT YET set in Stone...
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Regarding the Matrix dice cap, was the intent to cap at 14 dice? In the absence of certain expensive 'ware that's the cap assuming super genius levels of logic.
I'd suggest 2 + 3(Logic) as the formula. That would cap an average (2 Logic) hacker at 8 DP while a genius (Logic 6) could hit the RAW cap of 20.
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Regarding the Matrix dice cap, was the intent to cap at 14 dice? In the absence of certain expensive 'ware that's the cap assuming super genius levels of logic.
I'd suggest 2 + 3(Logic) as the formula. That would cap an average (2 Logic) hacker at 8 DP while a genius (Logic 6) could hit the RAW cap of 20.
Good point. Post updated.
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I will see you all tonight, although I might be running a few minutes late.
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House Rules updated (update: existence of cyberdecks and sundry clarified).
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Good to see everyone yesterday. Brett is 90% done, we will grab a DTF of Street Magic tonight and get her finished.
Did you want us to PM our characters for review?
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I know we talked about getting a group van with BP, but it seemed to be dropped. I can contribute 2 BP to this if we want to go through with this.
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I just spent some time looking at subscriptions on my deck/link. I should be able to juggle a subscription for each team member to give us encrypted communication.
Rob, do I need to leave a copy of my encrypt program on each deck/link, leave it running on mine or just make a test to start encryption and I don't have to use a running program slot?
Edit: Read the rules again. Based on what I'm seeing I just make a test to encrypt and that becomes the threshold for an opposed decker to decrypt. The rest of the team would use a pre-shared key that I provide.
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I know we talked about getting a group van with BP, but it seemed to be dropped. I can contribute 2 BP to this if we want to go through with this.
Unfortunately I'm strapped on BP. We might need to handle that once we start.
Finalizing my background fluff today if this never ending fraking conference call
ends. Contacts and fake SINs are done, just background to go.
Brett is reviewing Street Magic currently and hopefully should have her character tomorrow.
What's the plan for starting date?
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So Rob, we going to be abiding by the updating done on the official forums? http://forums.shadowrun4.com/index.php#2 (http://forums.shadowrun4.com/index.php#2)
In completely unrelated news, I am now dancing a happy jig and my faith in humanity has been restored as good can overcome evil.
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So Rob, we going to be abiding by the updating done on the official forums? http://forums.shadowrun4.com/index.php#2 (http://forums.shadowrun4.com/index.php#2)
In completely unrelated news, I am now dancing a happy jig and my faith in humanity has been restored as good can overcome evil.
Ah, what updating in particular?
Start date will be announced once I've had a chance to talk to Travis and get his character set up. I'd LOVE to start on the 15th if we can, but I'll not be heartbroken if we don't start till the 22nd. The hooks for the first session are already mostly planned-out; I was looking at a pair of easy hooks to get everybody started, and we'll move to the "sandbox" player-driven style of play as the games moves along.
As a general note!
I've started a campaign page on Obsidian Portal: http://www.obsidianportal.com/campaigns/what-piece-of-work-is-man
Each of you (except you, Rob Jordan, because I don't have a valid email for you yet - p[lease PM me one) has been sent an invite. I'd very much appreciate it if you'd write down your characters under the "characters" tab. A character portrait is not required, but would be nice. Thanks!
EDIT: Wait...there's OFFICIAL FORUMS now?! Frabjulous day! No more DumpShock asshattery!
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In other news Hardy's personality hasn't been removed by an asshat Canadian teenager's offhand comments.
Maybe I'm still bitter about boring Herb.
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Rob, how much do you want us to stat out our contacts? General discription, where they are located, more than that?
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Rob, how much do you want us to stat out our contacts? General discription, where they are located, more than that?
As much as you want to. I need, at a minimum, a name and "type", and I'll give them a descriptive paragraph from there if I get nothing from you. Full-on statlines probably aren't necessary.
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Since I've been asked about it... Here's the Shadowrun 4e character creator.
http://www.365discoveries.com/2009/07/shadowrun-character-generator-2/
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Finalized hacker up on obsidianportal. Caution: backstory contains eye-searing dialect.
Wall of text crits English for 10000 (crushing).
English dies.
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As promised, the capsule of Unwired.
Essentially in order to not leave a big ugly datatrail every time a hacker uses a program (legal programs leave an entry in the log file when used) the registration and copy protection have to be removed. Practical upshot is that you can pirate the program for 10% of it's actual value. Problem is that it degrades one rating per month unless you patch it or buy another pirated copy for 10%. Problem here is with a full suite of programs (18 hacking and 8 common) you're paying about 8k in upkeep a month or spending more hours than you have in a month patching software.
My suggestion would be to remove the datatrail and degradation crap from legal copies for playability.
Assuming I'll only be hacking systems that are relatively appropriate for our experience level I should be fine. The only other issue is that I'll always be running at -1 response (at least) due to program overhead. The workaround for this is to allow the ergonomic program option from Unwired or to allow the Response enhancer gear from Unwired (adds its rating for calculating matrix initiative only). Response enhancer 1 allows me to have 9 programs running on an availability 12 commlink without dipping below my stock 5 response. Ergonomic does the same in a different way.
Realistically I'll want to upgrade to a response 6 chip ASAP so I can run a couple of extra programs. Ideally with ergonomic programs on my most common 6 programs that gives me a total of 11 without a response hit.
A standard hacking loadout is about 9 or so (see below with response breakpoints):
Response 5:
Encrypt (required for team communication encryption)
Stealth
Analyze
Exploit or Spoof or Scan or Decrypt
Response 4:
Browse or Edit or Command or Defuse
Reality Filter
Biofeedback Filter
Armor
Attack or Blackout or Black Hammer
My preference would be to not get into a Matrix arms race. At this point lets sit back and assume I'm not leaving a neon trail by using registered/legal programs.
Oh and I researched further, Encrypt definitely has to be running for me to encrypt the teams communications.
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Here's the trick, though, is that you shouldn't necessarily be expecting to be able to run pretty much all of your important programs ALL the time. The decision-making and risk analysis/management is part of the game. You can always choose to have all those programs running at once, but the downside is the Response penalty. If you don't want the Response penalty, then you have to manage your risk and choose some programs to not be constantly up. Conceptually, it's not much different than the Street Sam having to pick and choose what 'ware he wants because he doesn't have enough Essence to get it all.
Thusly, what we're going to do for the near future is run this as written in the core book. That'll let me get a handle on what you are and aren't able to do. If, after a few sessions, it's leaning toward "the core rules need modifying" to make the decker work, then we'll almost certainly swap over to the Unwired gear (plus being able to introduce the Unwired gear during play can be a good plot hook). I need to see it in play for myself before I make a final decision on this. I'm not saying no - I'm saying that I need play experience to make a final decision, and the dammed Matrix rules are unintuitive enough that I can't abstract them in my head to tell you one way or another which way I'm leaning.
However, on the "datatrail" thing...yeah, I'm generally not going to worry about that anyway. I always assume that deckers are getting their programs from other Shadowland-types who are removing the copy protection (etc) as a matter of course (or they wrote their own software which didn't have that in the first place). If you manage to get into an Ultraviolet host, they're probably going to be able to track you down anyway, legal software or no. So under "normal" parameters, you won't have to worry about that, and ESPECIALLY not the degradation BS. I don't want to have to track that, and I assume you don't either.
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For what it's worth (and I dislike Dumpshock myself) Jennifer Harding actually posted up the mechanics and rules from the Matrix chapter intro in SR4A a while back.
http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=26473&st=0&p=804857&#entry804857 (http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=26473&st=0&p=804857&#entry804857)
One of the DSF posters that isn't a total douche-canoe also maintains a decent Matrix rules/examples thread.
http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=23587 (http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=23587)
If you aren't doing the datatrail crap we'll introduce program options etc. once we're all comfortable with the mechanics. Unwired makes it so I don't have to think or plan, I'd rather do it the RAW core way. I'd only need to have full response and all my programs running if you're throwing me up against GOD. Against normal security deckers and spiders that are chucking 10 or so dice it's a fair match. If Pilot 6 IC on Rating 6 nodes is the norm I'm fairly screwed.
PS: At Brett's request and for all our sanity I'll be dialing back my Brummie dialect for this PC. I don't think any of us want to translate Brummie to English if we don't have to.
PPS: Note the handle change, I think the intentionally low-tech handle says alot about the character.
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Rob, PM sent via obsidian.
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Okay. I knew we were doing hacking wrong. I brain farted last night.
Hack on the fly (building records last night) is my hacking + exploit vs the node's firewall rather than firewall + system. It gets firewall + analyze with a threshold of my stealth to detect me.
I will continue studying the rules to minimize the embarrasment in future.
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Hack on the fly (building records last night) is my hacking + exploit vs the node's firewall rather than firewall + system. It gets firewall + analyze with a threshold of my stealth to detect me.
Is that "the node's firewall" the threshold for your test, or is it an opposed roll? It seems that if it's an opposed roll, it's almost impossible to fail to hack a node regardless of how secure it is simply by the dint of the fact that you're rolling 2 stats that range from 1-6 against a single stat that ranges from 1-6. Having to beat the rating of the Firewall as a threshold sounds more in line with the overall RPG system. Could you give me SR420A page references for your argument?
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Page 235: Hacking on the fly is an Hacking + Exploit (target’s Firewall, Complex Action)
Extended Test. Reaching the threshold will get you a user account on the node. If you want
a security account, increase the threshold by +3, for an admin account increase it by +6.
When you beat the threshold and gain the account, you are automatically logged onto the
node with that level of access, and do not need to spend a Log On action (unless you log off ).
Such brute force hacks can attract attention. Each time you take a Hack on the
Fly action, the target node makes a free roll on an Analyze + Firewall (hacker’s Stealth)
Extended Test. If the node detects you an alert is triggered, even if you have succeeded in
your attempt (Alerts, p. 238).
Essentially it's Hacking + Exploit (Firewall, Complex Action). Each time I try it rolls Analyze + Firewall (Stealth).
If I'm going for a security account it's Firewall +3, Admin is Firewall +6.
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OK, so the Firewall IS the threshold for the Hacking+Exploit! Good - that's what I had thought. Thanks!
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Total brainfart. Spoofing uses firewall + system as does probing over the long term. That's where I got confused and mis-remembered.
edit: for clarity of above
Found another broken rule, Page 337 on Medkits:
The medkit’s rating adds to the dice pool of all First Aid Tests, and replaces the character’s skill if the character doesn’t possess the skill (Medkits and Autodocs, p. 253).
So I'd be able to heal more by defaulting from logic 5 than with Rating 1 First Aid?
Appears to have been fixed on page 124 of Augmentation:
The maximum number of boxes that First Aid can heal is the Rating of the medical equipment or the First Aid skill of the character, whichever is higher (see pp. 242–244, SR4). So it behooves characters to use the very best medical equipment when dealing with severe injuries.
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Rob- PM sent to you.
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Travis: do you have any additional information on your contacts besides their names and ratings? Even just their races and a bit of personality? If so, please post it.
Mike: do you have racial data on Flick's contacts? If so, please post it.
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posted