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[deadlyfire2345]

I would like to request restrictions on how Company C3 can be played out.
1. Company structure should have the BV % scaled based on number of lances connected, including tank units (despite only 5 tanks having either C3 system currently installed)
2. CO, XO, and company officers can be the only ones to set up the system.
3. Reinforcements cannot enter primary units band, nor the band of other reinforcement lances.


Looking through the recent ruleset, refitting omni mechs is still not in the actual document so pulled from first campaign p27 on questions thread per Rob


"As per pg 27 of the rules, swapping OmniPod stuff around is a always a Class A refit, with an equipment modifier of -4 and with a base time of 30 minutes per item.

So swapping an cERPPC for a cLPL would look like this:

OmniPod Swap.  Base time, 30 minutes.  TN modifier -4
Class A refit.  Time multiplier: x2  TN modifier +2

Total time, 60 minutes
TN: -2, not counting time modifiers and location modifiers


Screwing around with NON-OmniPodded stuff (with a sole exception, outlined on pg 30 of the HM,WT rules) always means that you permanently lose OmniMech status.  Hard-mounted stuff is hard-mounted.

Converting non-Omni equipment to Omni-capable equipment is also on page 30 (this is in there at least)."

[Darrian Wolffe]

OK, C3 deployment rules.

First, COMPANY denotes the in-game organizational company we use.  Alpha, Baker, etc.  Company denotes a group of 12 Mechs connected to a C3 network with 2 Master units. 

1) Mechs within the same COMPANY may connect to a Company-level network formed by their own COMPANY freely.  If Alpha COMPANY has a Company-level C3 network, and Lance 1 and Lance 2 are in the game, they may be connected freely.  If a C3-active Lance 3 enters the game late for some reason, they may still be considered connected to the Company C3 network the moment they step on the board.

2) Mechs from different COMPANIES may not be part of the same Company C3 network, with the exception noted below.
2a) Mechs from different COMPANIES may be part of a Company C3 network *if and only if* they both deploy as reinforcements, AND they enter the board on the same turn.  (Remember that Lances can choose to delay their reinforcement entrance time; your entrance turn is the minimum).  All other normal Company-level C3 rules apply to this, so one of the entering Mech must mount dual Master Computers (1 for their lance, and 1 for the expanded network).

Rule 2a Example:  Alpha Company, Lance 2, and Charlie Company, Lance 3, are reinforcements.  Both Alpha and Charlie normally have a COMPANY level network active, so all Mechs are C3-compatible, and Lance 2 has a dual-Master Mech.  Lance 2 deploys on Turn 3, and Lance 3 deploys on Turn 5.  These two lances may connect into a Company-level network if Lance 2 is willing to delay its entry until Lance 3 enters the board on Turn 5, otherwise they may not form a Company-level network, as they are from different COMPANIES of the unit.  Regardless of when they enter the board, the C3 network in each individual lance may still be active within that Lance as long as the normal BV premium is accounted for.

Looking through the recent ruleset, refitting omni mechs is still not in the actual document

Goddammit.

[Darrian Wolffe]

C3 Systems and Unit Building

There is no good, scalable way to ensure that C3 is balanced on a basis where each individual Mech/Tank/Catgirl has a different BV2 based on whether or not it has C3 active.  So, effective at the end of FLINT, we will use the following system for Lance Construction in regards to C3.

A Lance is either C3 active, or it is not. There is no middle ground. If it is C3 active, then any number of its deployed Mechs may have an active and connected C3 system (following all normal C3 rules).  A Lance with one C3 Master Mech and one C3 Slave Mech, with those C3 systems active on the battlefield, counts as being "C3 active".  So does a Lance with one C3 Master and three C3 Slaves active.  So would a lance with four active C3i systems.  Note that if you do not have an active C3 system during a scenario, you do not qualify as being C3-active (ie, if you turn the C3 systems off).  A Lance may not change its C3 status during a scenario.

A C3 active Lance functions exactly as normal Lance, except that its total BV2 cap for deployment is 5% lower, rounded to the nearest 5 or 0.  At the time of this writing, the BV2 cap is 7,500 BV2.  Therefore a C3-active Lance would have an effective BV cap of 7,125 (5% of 7,500 being 375).  USE ONLY THE UNIT'S BASE BV2 NUMBER TO FIGURE YOUR TOTAL LANCE BV, do not use the "C3-active" BV2 amount; the C3 premium is paid by virtue of a lower total BV cap, instead of making each unit individually more expensive.

*Mathematically, the current-rules 5% surcharge on each C3-active Mech in a lance means that you have an effective 20% surcharge on your Lance's BV if you deploy 4 C3-active Mechs.  Or put another way, it would drop the lance cap down to 6,000 BV2. These rules are functionally applying a single 5% surcharge on the ENTIRE Lance, and are doing so in a way that's easier to track, rather than worrying about the BV2 of lots of individual machines.


Company-level C3
Lances from the same organizational company may combine to form a company-level C3 network freely, as described above in "C3 Deployment Rules".  The unit with the second C3 Master Computer that enables a company-level setup MUST be found in either the Company CO, or Company XO's, Lance.

For the sake of clarity, C3i systems may not (and indeed, cannot) be used on the company level, nor interface in any way with a normal C3 system.  If Lances 1 and 2 in Able Company have normal C3 networks, Lance 1 contains a duel C3 Master unit, and Lance 3 has 4 Mechs with C3i, then Lances 1 and 2 may form a company-level network, but Lance 3 may not join in and operates as its own C3i-networked unit.

There is no additional BV effect for setting up a Company-level network.  As long as each lance abides by the lower BV2 deployment cap, everything is fine.

C3 and Non-Mech Supporting Units
Non-Mech units with C3 may form a C3 network independently, but may not join a Company-level network.  If Delta Company has a 4-tank, legal, C3 network, and Delta Company only has Lances 1 and 2 who have 4-Mech, legal, C3 networks, the tank unit may not join the Mechs in a Company-level network, even though there is space in the network for them to participate.  This is a GM call purely to reduce the possibility of friction between members of a Company, and to ensure that Company Commander Solo Missions which allow for vehicle deployment are not completely trivialized.

[Darrian Wolffe]

Yeah, OK.  That's stupid. 

The Obsolete Quirk is under review.  If you have a Mech with Obsolete, until I post something different, assume the following:
1) Internal structure repair/replacement is going to have a LARGE modifier.  Assume a +3 (on top of whatever else) until I say otherwise.
2) Other components do not have a modifier, because armor is agnostic to the Mech, and so forth (the Rampages armor never actually goes out of production, why the hell does it incur a modifier to replace?)
3) See the GM to talk about your Obsolete Mech.

A full rule revision will be published at some point in the future.

HEY GUESS WHAT?!  IT"S THE FUTURE!

"A unit with the Obsolete Quirk cannot have any variants in active production, and must note the year in which its production ceased as part of the Quirk.  After that, the unit will become hard to maintain, and its resale price will drop.  To reflect this, for every full 100 years after production of an obsolete unit ceased, any rolls to repair or replace equipment on the unit will suffer a +1 TN increase, to a maximum of +2.  For every full 25 years after production of an obsolete unit ceased, any rolls to locate replacement parts for the unit will suffer a +1 TN increase, to a maximum of +3.  Alternatively, a Tech can also attempt to hand-modify existing actuators, head components and weapons to fit the obsolete unit: assume that the Tech is replacing the part as per normal, but must also include the "Must Fabricate Components" Parts-based Modifier from the Master Repair Table.  Engines, gyros, internal locations cannot be modified in this manner - they must be purchased as replacement parts with the above time-based modifier.  Armor is always considered to be available and never requires penalties to located and purchase. Finally, for every full 20 years after production of an obsolete unit ceased, the final resale cost of an obsolete Mech will decrease by 5%, to a minimum of 50% of the otherwise final resale price."

[Darrian Wolffe]

Could we add a subsection to parts that shows which advanced gear is considered TW standard and the allowed advance tech at this time.

I am STILL trying to find the goddamn chart that gives that information. I've been looking for literal weeks, plural.

GUESS WHAT I FOUND!!!!

TRO Prototypes, pages 206-208, has the information.  It's 3 full pages, so it's too long to reproduce in-line with the thread here, but this chart includes all the experimental tech AND when/if it drops in Tech level.

Remember, you can buy TW equipment, and you can buy Advanced Tech equipment.  Experimental equipment must be found/salvaged/awarded.

[deadlyfire2345]

Seeing as how the mobile field base works as a means to repair either Mech, vehicle, or Aero. How do you want to play it in terms of repair when assigned to a unit?
This chart has the Mobile Field Base treated as a field workshop, which is a +1 to repair TNs. This chart is found in old Strat ops and new Camp ops.

[Darrian Wolffe]

A Mechwarrior may have only ONE Gunnery Specialization, and only ONE Weapon Specialization. 

Yes, I need to make a full document revision soon. I'd try it before the next contract, but 100% I won't have time.

[Darrian Wolffe]

Reading Contract Terms

Against the Bot pulls its contract generation system largely from Field Manual Mercenaries (Revised), FanPro 10977.  The charts which govern most contract terms can be found in the "Running A Mercenary Force" chapter, beginning on page 153. 

Contract terms are set by several sliding scales; each contract term is weighted by a combination of contract TYPE (raid, planetary assault, garrison duty, etc), the EMPLOYER (the faction offering the contract), and the DRAGOONS RATING of the mercenary unit in question.  Each contract term is randomly generated, and then adjusted by approximately the values listed in Master Contract Terms Table A.  Being a computer program, AtB allows for a somewhat finer degree of fidelity than the strictly analog system found in FM Mercs.

As a matter of practice, a C-rated mercenary command can expect the following very rough averages in their contract monetary terms prior to modifiers for things like contract type :
Overhead Compensation: 0-100% (increments of none, half, and full only)
Salvage: 10-40%
Straight Support: 30-60%
Battle Loss Compensation: 25-45%
Transport: 0-55%


These percentages can increase or decrease sharply depending on the employer.  While FM Mercs uses a GM-based bidding system to provide variance, and AtB used to allow for a number of rerolls based on your CO skill ratings and administrator skill, AtB after version 0.47 simply seems to add percentage points to the various contract terms, although the specific math remains functionally black-boxed in the Java code.  Using the FM Mercs guidelines, then, and discounting the employer, contract type, and whatever bonuses appear as a result of CO/admin skill, an A-rated (not an A*) mercenary command should expect the following rough averages in their contract monetary terms:
Overhead Compensation: 0-100% (increments of none, half, and full only)
Salvage: 40-60%
Straight Support: 40-70%
Battle Loss Compensation: 30-50%
Transport: 25-75%

(Not all contracts offer both Straight Support AND Battle Loss Compensation; many offer only one or the other, and the roll to determine whether it's one or both is independent of any other modifiers whatsoever.)

Values above this range are less common, and will appear significantly less frequently the further from this range they go.  Note that modifiers can affect things greatly.  Assuming that the rolls were ported directly across to AtB, for example, simply taking on a Pirate Hunting mission can increase an otherwise average Salvage term result of 40%, to a term of 60%, prior to any bonuses from the CO or Admin which may be present in the system.

Enemy Ratings post 3050

As far as I can determine, this is more or less how AtB breaks down the Ally and OPFOR equipment ratings:

A: Mostly brand new, mostly top of the line, or just-released, equipment.  A well supplied frontline OmniMech force with few, if any, 2nd line Mechs.
B: Mostly FoundTech, but not necessarily top of the line equipment. Some older machines, with a few IntroTech Mechs and a few just-released Mechs.  A lower end frontline OmniMech force, with a few 2nd line Mechs
C: Some FoundTech, little of it top of the line.  A typical Clan garrison force, with mostly 2nd line machines and a few Omnis, mostly in command positions
D: FoundTech is mostly only for commanders or aces, and most units are IntroTech.  A poorly supplied Clan garrison unit, perhaps with no Omnis at all, and some Star League gear
F: Almost entirely IntroTech, and a greater preponderance of conventional units. A totally rear echelon or sohlama Clan unit, possibly including IntroTech Mechs.

Note that this is not ironclad.  It is entirely possible to see a Star of 5 Stormcrows generated in a C-rated Clan force.  But it's much less likely to get generated there than in an A-rated force.

[Darrian Wolffe]

At the end of Operation FUSILIER, I will be increasing the lance BV limit to 8000 to account for the degree of recovered technologies post-3060. 

I do not plan to increase the limit further.

[ADHDtv]

will the C3 penalty remain 5% shaved off the total max? Result being 7600 BV limit on C3 active lances.

[Hat]

Ok, after watching the custom Assault company use a full C3 company network, I really think there needs to be an additional BV cost beyond the base 5% if you connect lances.  Having the multi-gauss Hauptmann sit in the back and fire at targets within 7 hexes of 11 other mechs providing they're within 22 of him doesn't feel like it should have the same cost as getting data feeds from only 3 other mechs.  ECM bubbles don't protect the target mechs, they cut off mechs within range and with so many in the network, tracing from another unit should be easy.  If the unit is cut off because it's in the ECM bubble, then it's pretty much close enough not to need the benefits from other units.  Not real interested in getting on the C3 bandwagon, but not sure what happens if I stay off.

[ItsTehPope]

Ok, after watching the custom Assault company use a full C3 company network, I really think there needs to be an additional BV cost beyond the base 5% if you connect lances.  Having the multi-gauss Hauptmann sit in the back and fire at targets within 7 hexes of 11 other mechs providing they're within 22 of him doesn't feel like it should have the same cost as getting data feeds from only 3 other mechs.  ECM bubbles don't protect the target mechs, they cut off mechs within range and with so many in the network, tracing from another unit should be easy.  If the unit is cut off because it's in the ECM bubble, then it's pretty much close enough not to need the benefits from other units.  Not real interested in getting on the C3 bandwagon, but not sure what happens if I stay off.

I'm not sure I agree or disagree yet.  But I do think some context is in order.  The Hauptman pilot is a gunner 0 effectively (base 2 gauss specialist) So he's always going to be hitting on relatively low numbers. I can't speak for ice but the two lances networked together I was only using the Atlas to spot for the Hauptmann once or twice - every other time my individual units were closer - and the times that I was using the Atlas, I am reasonably certain I had a friendly element that could have provided the same role.

[deadlyfire2345]

Since its slowly being released in the IS, could we get customization rules in regards to ASF and Tank Omni?

[deadlyfire2345]

Per talks with Rob at his house

TSM/MASC treated as JJ for terms of reinforcement.

[Darrian Wolffe]

Per talks with Rob at his house

TSM/MASC treated as JJ for terms of reinforcement.

Confirmed.  This was actually brought up and decided back in the first Rangers campaign, and it just never made it into the rules doc. 

Also, while I know it's going to make people irritated, I am now taking discussion on the value of increasing the Active C3 BV modifier to a flat 10% for each C3-Active Lance, instead of 5%.  I do not agree with the official rules that make it 20%+20% per extra lance (meaning a 60% modifier to a company's BV), and never will, but I can see the argument Hat made about C3 being more effective than a simple 5%.  Unfortunately, there is no way within our existing rules framework to actually create a scaling modifier that increases the more lances join the network, because each individual lance has to be capped.  I very much want people to be able to use and have fun with C3, but I also don't want it to turn into a "must have" bit of kit, and based on my PMs, pretty much everyone who isn't running a C3 lance feels like it is.  Therefore, I'd like to have that discussion, pros and cons and so forth.  Nothing will change until the end of the contract regardless, as per every other rules issue. If someone wouldn't mind starting a thread for that discussion, that would be helpful.

It would also be helpful for people to review the rules around ECM and C3, because unless there's been an errata somewhere of which I'm unaware, C3 links are drawn in a direct straight-line LOS back to the C3 Master, which means that if you put an ECM unit BETWEEN a spotter and the Master, that spotter is cut off from the network. A normal C3 system can't route around an ECM bubble (though, note, a C3i system absolutely can). Deliberate use of ECM to break up C3 networks is a player skill issue, and not necessarily indicative of a C3 network being OP.