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[Riegien]

Ok that is correct I wasn't sure if it was true skirmish or if at any point were supposed to recreate something like the Normandy landings I mean I'm good either way but was hoping for some of those thrown in there if they weren't supposed to be. Also I'm assuming the force value we should be focusing on is 1000 but have about 1250 worth to mess with if we do more or change stuff out?

I think at the moment we are focusing on playing at 1000 point pickup skirmish games.  So show up, bring a list, shoot little plastic men.  We probably will start at lower point counts to begin with while people get used to the rules, so our first day .ay be 500 or 750 pt lists.

  Knowing this group we will be doing scenario or large games sooner or later, just cause we like that sort of thing.  That's part of the reason I'm getting up towards a company of wee men, just so if we need a German baddy force it will be available.  That and low impulse control.

[phlop]

I know about the low implulse control, just started a section of British paratroopers. Will probably work it up to 3 sections with accessories. Wish they would get the plastics out soon.

[Ice]

will have to rethink once I get an accurate structure of what the squad lay out truly would have been for the paratroopers and gliders

[Riegien]

Ah, that we can help with.  Thank you George.

"standard" paratrooper company setup
http://usacac.army.mil/CAC2/CGSC/CARL/nafziger/944UQPK.PDF

101st Airborne basic TO&E, includes both parachute and glider breakdowns.
http://spearhead1944.com/amerpg/amer101.htm

Both of these will be the 'this is what the platoon was supposed to have', not necessarily what it DID have.  Things broke, there were casualties, people picked up fancy toys in the bustle of combat, divisional attachments were made.  So throwing an extra set of bazookas in when the standard platoon may not have had them isnt a huge thing, or not taking any LMGs, etc.

[Ice]

Airborne
1 Squad Leader(SSgt)-------M1 Garand Rifle, or Thompson SMG
1 Assistant Leader(Sgt)------M1 Garand Rifle, Carbine, or SMG
7 Riflemen ------------------M1 Garand Rifles and (2 max) Carbines
1 Machine Gunner-----------M1919A4/6, and a Carbine
1 Assistant Gunner----------M1 Carbine
1 Ammo bearer---------M1 Garand Rifle


this would be the Normandy landing

glider

1 Weapons Platoon. Weapons:
 2 .30 Browning LMG
 3 60mm Mortars (1 was in Company HQ)

 2 Rifle Platoons (each):

 3 Squads (12 men each). Composition:
 1 Sergeant
 1 Lance Corporal
 2 Corporals
 8 Men.

Squad weapons:
 1 BAR
 1 1903 Springfield Rifle
 10 M-1 Garand Rifles

this doesn't look correct though as in the ba site it doesn't have option for 1903. Im not sure if that's after invasion possibly? Also only 1 spot for the mortar

basically what to take from my research is just throw it together with existing system and slightly modify it as some ncos may have a Thompson anyway even if it was listed as supposed to have a rifle.

[Ice]

how likely was it for a paratrooper to be with his actual unit with the misdrops as well as the glider squads coming down intact with all 12 men on the initial drops during dday? That is the force type im looking for at moment. Also is it all us forces that get the run and gun bonus where they can fire bar and rifles on run without penalty or is that just regular army units? Im assuming us forces.

[serrate]

this doesn't look correct though as in the ba site it doesn't have option for 1903. Im not sure if that's after invasion possibly? Also only 1 spot for the mortar

basically what to take from my research is just throw it together with existing system and slightly modify it as some ncos may have a Thompson anyway even if it was listed as supposed to have a rifle.

The 1903 is reflected as the sniper team weapon, although the sniper team could also be using an M1 Garand. Certain theater lists provide access to additional mortar teams.

Remember that the standard TO&E becomes quickly non-standard once mis-drops, casualties, additional equipment stores and captured weapons are taken into account. So don't sweat it, unless you're determined to model a green airborne squad still in training camp. 

how likely was it for a paratrooper to be with his actual unit with the misdrops as well as the glider squads coming down intact with all 12 men on the initial drops during dday? That is the force type im looking for at moment. Also is it all us forces that get the run and gun bonus where they can fire bar and rifles on run without penalty or is that just regular army units? Im assuming us forces.

Don't worry about how likely it was. Some units were together, some weren't. Some squads would've been running around on DDay with only a few guys, some might've been over-strength as lost troops banded together. So anything you want to put together under the rules will likely accurately represent some squads during that time.

All US forces get run and gun.

[Ice]

OPERATION OVERLORD Theater list


HQ .........................113 points
2nd LT (50) Regular (SMG)
+2 aide (20) Regular (M1)
Medic (23) Regular (pistol)
+2 aide (20) Regular (carbine or M1)

Light Mortar Team.....46 pts....veteran paratrooper version(does this have to be with veteran paratroopers? I had seen it else where without wording (veteran) if that is required I may swap for bazooka

Able Section..........185 points......Regular
NCO (78)
+5 men (free)
+6 men (78) (2 with carbines)
30 cal (20) with loader (carbines)
NCO SMG (3)
2 ADDITIONAL SMG (6)

Baker Section..........185 points......Regular
NCO (78)
+5 men (free)
+6 men (78) (2 with carbines)
30 cal (20) with loader (carbines)
NCO SMG (3)
2 ADDITIONAL SMG (6)

Charlie Section..........158 points......Regular
NCO (60)
+5 men (free)
+6 men (60)
BAR (5)
NCO SMG (3)
2 ADDITIONAL SMG (6)
AT grenades (24)

Delta Section..........158 points......Regular
NCO (60)
+5 men (free)
+6 men (60)
BAR (5)
NCO SMG (3)
2 ADDITIONAL SMG (6)
AT grenades (24)

30 CAL MMG Team x 2.....100 pts....Regular

Sniper Team.....54 pts.....Regular (Pistol SMG)
Team(52)
SMG (2)

Total: 999 pts


that's option 1

option 2 is to remove a glider squad and mortar team for an m10 (Regular)with HMG
option 3 is to remove a glider squad add a bazooka team (veteran) and make the 2 MMG teams veteran and add a third MMG (regular)


any thoughts on best option here

my thoughts this would be something that would be more like initial events after dday drops with little tank support and more realistic toward the actual fighting men during those times. Leaning more toward option 1 and 3 on my choice

[Riegien]

Looks great.  Other options would be to only have 2 of your combat teams have AT grenades and to drop an aide from both the HQ teams to pick up either a bazooka team (I'm assuming some came down on the gliders) or a 57mm AT gun which definitely did come down on the gliders.  Id try all of the options and see how you like them.  Or I think the paras had recoilless rifles dropped if you feel you want something beefier.

[serrate]

Light Mortar Team.....46 pts....veteran paratrooper version(does this have to be with veteran paratroopers? I had seen it else where without wording (veteran) if that is required I may swap for bazooka

You're allowed to use a non-airborne Mortar Team in this theater at Inexperienced, Regular, or Veteran levels (all 3 man teams). If you want to go "pure" airborne, then choose the airborne mortar team, which is automatically Veteran and consists of only 2 men.

Able Section..........185 points......Regular
NCO (78)
+5 men (free)
+6 men (78) (2 with carbines)
30 cal (20) with loader (carbines)
NCO SMG (3)
2 ADDITIONAL SMG (6)

I'm assuming this is a "Paratrooper" squad. Paratroopers are automatically Veteran, not Regular, but your points cost is good.  (^_^)b
Every soldier you buy in an Inf squad is assumed to come with a basic rifle (in this case either M1 Garand or Carbine), until some other option is chosen for him. Just mentioning this so that you don't feel you need to micromanage who's got what.

Charlie Section..........158 points......Regular
NCO (60)
+5 men (free)
+6 men (60)
BAR (5)
NCO SMG (3)
2 ADDITIONAL SMG (6)
AT grenades (24)

Ok, based on the equipment choices and cost, this one is a "Glider" squad, and is Regular. Looks great!

Sniper Team.....54 pts.....Regular (Pistol SMG)
Team(52)
SMG (2)

This means only one of the 2 guys has an SMG, which is fine, just wanted to make sure you knew.

This is great! Very nice list, which well represents a D-Day airborne force. 10 order dice, which seems excellent. All the options you've mentioned, as well as Travis, are fun things to try as well, but the list as-is seems like a perfect place to start.

I do worry about not having a true AT weapon in a 1000-pt list, since there's a strong likelihood you'll face armored vees at that level.

You can add 1 Regular Bazooka team by doing the following:

• 1) Drop 1 aide from 2nd LT (saves 10 points, plus gives that unit the "small team" bonus)
• 2) Drop 1 aide from medic (saves 10 points, plus gives that unit the "small team" bonus)
• 3) Delta Section, drop 3 troops and 1 SMG (saves 39 points and still leaves this as a strong Inf group that can assault a tank if needed)

Puts your list at 1000 even, ups order dice to 11, and adds the Bazooka. Hmmm, really REALLY like your list man!  (^_^)b 

[phlop]

That's what I like about this game. Is build your list, play a game or two. See what you like and don't. Make changes, until you get something that plays well for you. You will play a game and somebody will have something that you think you want or need something to counter. It is a continual process of changing. Also the scenarios can limit you and you usually don't know what scenario you will play until you get to put the plastic to the table.

[Ice]

I fixed a few areas you mentioned with the veteran status I actually wanted to drop the medic and LT teams to 2 but felt it a big risk toward fubar morale checks but I didn't know about the small unit bonus now the removing of troops would it be better to just take them off a single squad or multiple to even it out? I'm assuming from one squad because assaulting a tank will give casualties and might even be left high and dry if that happens

I liked the bazooka to much the antitank dedication not to mention I can still attack troops with it I don't have to be so close for the grenades

[serrate]

OPERATION OVERLORD Theater list


HQ .........................113 points
2nd LT (50) Regular (SMG)
+2 aide (20) Regular (M1)
Medic (23) Regular (pistol)
+2 aide (20) Regular (carbine or M1)

Light Mortar Team.....46 pts....veteran paratrooper version(does this have to be with veteran paratroopers? I had seen it else where without wording (veteran) if that is required I may swap for bazooka

Able Section..........185 points......Regular
NCO (78)
+5 men (free)
+6 men (78) (2 with carbines)
30 cal (20) with loader (carbines)
NCO SMG (3)
2 ADDITIONAL SMG (6)

Baker Section..........185 points......Regular
NCO (78)
+5 men (free)
+6 men (78) (2 with carbines)
30 cal (20) with loader (carbines)
NCO SMG (3)
2 ADDITIONAL SMG (6)

Charlie Section..........158 points......Regular
NCO (60)
+5 men (free)
+6 men (60)
BAR (5)
NCO SMG (3)
2 ADDITIONAL SMG (6)
AT grenades (24)

Delta Section..........158 points......Regular
NCO (60)
+5 men (free)
+6 men (60)
BAR (5)
NCO SMG (3)
2 ADDITIONAL SMG (6)
AT grenades (24)

30 CAL MMG Team x 2.....100 pts....Regular

Sniper Team.....54 pts.....Regular (Pistol SMG)
Team(52)
SMG (2)
...
option 2 is to remove a glider squad and mortar team for an m10 (Regular)with HMG
option 3 is to remove a glider squad add a bazooka team (veteran) and make the 2 MMG teams veteran and add a third MMG (regular)
...

Option 1: 64 airborne troops (includes 6 M1919 MG's, and Mortar)
Option 2: 50 airborne troops & M10
Option 3: 57 airborne troops (adds bazooka)

Purchase #1: The new plastic Airborne boxed set (30 troops) is your first purchase, and probably x2. Once Miniature Market gets this in stock it will be for 20% off retail, which puts it at $32.80 ($1.09 per soldier). You won't find US Airborne for cheaper than this. The nice thing about this set is that each sprue (5 per box) includes the M1919, which covers all those MG needs. You could also easily modify one of these guys to be carrying a bazooka, as well as build yourself a small mortar (or simply proxy), which means this purchase alone gets you fully set for Option 3. - $65.60 for 2 boxes

Btw, Game Time Miniatures in Milford says they shoot for 20% off retail also. This isn't always strictly true, and sometimes you'll see inconsistent pricing, BUT you could likely get those 2 boxes from them for pretty close to the price I listed above. They'll also offer you a discount for being a first-time shopper, which would drop the price even more. Call them before you go in and check availability, as Airborne is selling well thanks to the new boxed set(s).

Purchase #2: Get an M10 from MiniatureMarket ($25.60) or Game Time. The best buy is to get the M10 platoon from MM ($64), which has 3 M10's. I'd happily buy one, and no doubt we could find someone to buy the third without much trouble since it's also usable by the Brits. Buying that boxed set means each M10 costs $21.33 each.

This pretty much gives you everything you need for all army options listed above for a grand total of about $87. Not too bad. After that, just add a little something here and there as you go. I don't think there's a cheaper way to do US Airborne.

Other airborne minis:
http://www.artizandesigns.com/list.php?man=15&cat=105&sub=117&page=1
http://www.oldglory15s.com/Paratroopers_c282.htm (these are 25mm)
http://eoeorbis.com/collections/world-war-2/ww2-range_americans-paras
http://www.neo-forge.com/american.html
http://www.offensiveminiatures.com/catalogue.asp?RID=2&CID=2
http://www.victoryforce.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=VFM&Category_Code=US-Para-Packs
http://www.westwindproductions.co.uk/index.php?route=product/category&path=76_163

[phlop]

I would possibly be interested in the extra M10. Tanks are expensive and don't get you a whole lot. This being said, if it is a Sherman or Cromwell that uses a 75mm that can fire HE it can be a good inf. weapon.

[Ice]

im thinking that's the best way to go much much cheaper then what I was looking at from warlord and another from uk