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[agustaaquila]

Rob an idea for opfor considering the last mission. When we run into missions where an opfor player gets stuck playing basically just infantry tanks and turrets maybe give that person an xp to use in non combat skills for their pc. Taelor kind of got the short end on the last one. Now an addendum for that however. Had the air bsp stopped the wraith in those last 2 turns I would have given my vote for MVP to Taelor same for Hat with the daring wolverine regardless. Theoretically the tanks could have done the deed as well but its just not super likely to see a defensive mvp for this type of situation for that player unless they have arty turrets and even then its iffy. This shouldn't come up that often with amount of players we have but gaps do happen and opfor gen is randomish.

Voting for MVP is a subjective vote.  You've laid out a case for why Taelor could be defMVP, but that was not compelling enough for a vote.

[Ice]

Rob an idea for opfor considering the last mission. When we run into missions where an opfor player gets stuck playing basically just infantry tanks and turrets maybe give that person an xp to use in non combat skills for their pc. Taelor kind of got the short end on the last one. Now an addendum for that however. Had the air bsp stopped the wraith in those last 2 turns I would have given my vote for MVP to Taelor same for Hat with the daring wolverine regardless. Theoretically the tanks could have done the deed as well but its just not super likely to see a defensive mvp for this type of situation for that player unless they have arty turrets and even then its iffy. This shouldn't come up that often with amount of players we have but gaps do happen and opfor gen is randomish.

Voting for MVP is a subjective vote.  You've laid out a case for why Taelor could be defMVP, but that was not compelling enough for a vote.

I agree was just trying to be fair to people who dont get the fun stompy robots

[Ice]

Rob can you generate Nick Chen as he was recruited 2/2 3 tactics 2 edge ER LL spec

 - you may have addressed this with the oob comment but not sure on the acronym sorry if thats what it referred to

[Darrian Wolffe]

Rob can you generate Nick Chen as he was recruited 2/2 3 tactics 2 edge ER LL spec

No.  I can't.





















Here you go.  OOB updated.

[ItsTehPope]

Rob can you generate Nick Chen as he was recruited 2/2 3 tactics 2 edge ER LL spec

 - you may have addressed this with the oob comment but not sure on the acronym sorry if thats what it referred to

Order of Battle

[Hat]

Ok, looking for in-universe view on the use of infernos. I'm fine with the strict mechanics.

Infernos vs. Mechs - perfectly fine.  No one's going to bat an eye at this.
Infernos vs. Vehicles - ?
Infernos vs. Infantry - ?

For that matter, anything about flamers vs. vehicles or infantry?  No one has a problem using mech mounted machine guns or SPLs vs. infantry, so I expect any objections to flamers and infernos would be the potential terror factor.

[Hat]

New question, this one mechanics: with a Clan mech that isn't Endosteel, how does it work for getting components, say a new RL given Clan case?

Can you replace with IS and simply lose the Clan Case benefit?
Do you need to replace with a Clan component and if so, is it still the 14+ TN?
For the upcoming Mission 2, where does the Thunderbolt C fall?

[Ice]

New question, this one mechanics: with a Clan mech that isn't Endosteel, how does it work for getting components, say a new RL given Clan case?

Can you replace with IS and simply lose the Clan Case benefit?
Do you need to replace with a Clan component and if so, is it still the 14+ TN?
For the upcoming Mission 2, where does the Thunderbolt C fall?

I would assume it would be standard structure cost plus clan endo cost and clan case cost then multiply but clan rarity multiplier. At the clan rarity TN unfortunately.

As far as the thud goes I don't think it has case even though it's a clan fielded unit. I believe its clan omni that auto have case. The mech should be a standard IS thud 5s with gear swapped out for the clan weapons as far as my understanding.

[Hat]

New question, this one mechanics: with a Clan mech that isn't Endosteel, how does it work for getting components, say a new RL given Clan case?

Can you replace with IS and simply lose the Clan Case benefit?
Do you need to replace with a Clan component and if so, is it still the 14+ TN?
For the upcoming Mission 2, where does the Thunderbolt C fall?

I would assume it would be standard structure cost plus clan endo cost and clan case cost then multiply but clan rarity multiplier. At the clan rarity TN unfortunately.

Endo would be obvious.  I'm talking standard structure mechs.  If there's an additional cost to components for integral Clan Case that's a separate question.  Arguably components are fairly generic as at the very least for simplicity we don't have to keep track of an Archer's RT vs. a Warhammer's RT, etc.

[deadlyfire2345]

New question, this one mechanics: with a Clan mech that isn't Endosteel, how does it work for getting components, say a new RL given Clan case?

Can you replace with IS and simply lose the Clan Case benefit?
Do you need to replace with a Clan component and if so, is it still the 14+ TN?
For the upcoming Mission 2, where does the Thunderbolt C fall?

I would assume it would be standard structure cost plus clan endo cost and clan case cost then multiply but clan rarity multiplier. At the clan rarity TN unfortunately.

Endo would be obvious.  I'm talking standard structure mechs.  If there's an additional cost to components for integral Clan Case that's a separate question.  Arguably components are fairly generic as at the very least for simplicity we don't have to keep track of an Archer's RT vs. a Warhammer's RT, etc.

The C variants are just IS mechs refitted with clan weapons. They are still IS base.

[Ice]

Stand corrected unless there is errata best ive got so far is that all clan units have case not just omni. Master rules source so far. Looking at others as I can.


In Clan units, all locations containing
explosive ammunition or equipment automatically have CASE, at no cost in tonnage
or critical slots. Inner Sphere ’Mechs and
vehicles can have CASE built in. Inner
Sphere BattleMechs can only carry CASE in
torso locations; Clan BattleMechs may carry
CASE in any location.

per master rules pg136

----------

Weapon pods for Clan OmniMechs automatically include the CASE ammo-protection feature (see CASE,
p. 135 in Equipment) at no cost in space or weight. Inner
Sphere OmniMechs must mount CASE normally.

per master rules pg129

--------

Units built using Clan technology (except for ProtoMechs)  are presumed to incorporate CASE automatically in all locations that store ammunition or explosive equipment (such as Gauss rifles).
OmniMechs, OmniVehicles and Support OmniVehicles designed without CASE in their base chassis may add it to later configurations as a pod.

from tech manual page 210

---------
So my assumption is that all clan sections come with case. The ammo wouldnt supply case to itself but the weapon however would is my guess for the overall point of the 2 sections.

The discussion starts with info based on the 129 section. If the weapon is cased I assume its referring to a weapon that explodes like HAGS etc and only to the weapon not that it is providing for the whole torso extending to the ammo.

As much as I would like to try and extrapolate my way into making it easier for standard to standard parts for clan and IS. I dont see much leeway on it. The wording for part of 136 in master rules and the tech manual 210 does open the door based on wording. Clan case CAN be in any location not that it is in every location. The wording from both of those would lead me to assume that any clan unit where the ammo/weapon that explodes (IE gauss) is located would be the only locations with case and would need to add additional case(s) to other locations later if wanted be it clan or IS or podded. It is a moot point for most aspects however except in certain scenarios such as standard internal section to standard internal section.

The debate becomes if say the nova has standard armor and internals it would be equivalent to IS versions except for the location that would have been intended to have case. That one would be pretty much SOL until you roll that location with all the normal part cost plus case then multiplied by the clan rarity cost and TN. This would be the only area I can see that it would be identical short of say cockpits/sensors/life support unless those have something goofy to them. IS endo wouldnt be comparable as the crit differences make them similar but not the same. I think this would be the only applicable time it would work and is not actually that complicated a way to at least semi fix some clan stuff.


also found this tidbit as a side note


MechWarrior Survival: The MechWarrior dies when the
destruction/loss of the head or cockpit occurs, or if the center
torso is destroyed by an ammunition explosion or area-effect
weapon. If the center torso is destroyed in any other fashion, the
MechWarrior does not automatically die. CASE mounted in the
center torso does not protect a MechWarrior from a center torso
ammo explosion.

So on that note dont put CASE in CT it does nothing for the mech or pilot.

[Hat]

<snip>
The C variants are just IS mechs refitted with clan weapons. They are still IS base.

Perhaps true if it's just a C and not a IIC.  The Thunderbolt C (as opposed to IIC) sounds like it is an IS base.  Take a look at a Rifleman IIC though and it is clearly Clan.  Tech base in SSW lists it as Clan and the Endo and FF are all Clan #s and Clan crits.

[Hat]

For convenience I'm summarizing my questions here:

Infernos
Ok, looking for in-universe view on the use of infernos. I'm fine with the strict mechanics.

Infernos vs. Mechs - perfectly fine.  No one's going to bat an eye at this.
Infernos vs. Vehicles - ?
Infernos vs. Infantry - ?

For that matter, anything about flamers vs. vehicles or infantry?  No one has a problem using mech mounted machine guns or SPLs vs. infantry, so I expect any objections to flamers and infernos would be the potential terror factor.

Clan (Omni)Mechs and Std Structure
With a Clan mech that isn't Endosteel, how does it work for getting components, say a new RL given Clan case?

Can you replace with IS and simply lose the Clan Case benefit?
Do you need to replace with a Clan component and if so, is it still the 14+ TN?
I'm fine if it is, just trying to understand how that works.

Prisoners
Can prisoners be released prior to contract end and would there be any restrictions?

[Darrian Wolffe]

For convenience I'm summarizing my questions here:

Infernos
Ok, looking for in-universe view on the use of infernos. I'm fine with the strict mechanics.

Infernos vs. Mechs - perfectly fine.  No one's going to bat an eye at this.
Infernos vs. Vehicles - ?
Infernos vs. Infantry - ?

As a PURELY IN-UNIVERSE ANSWER: both of those question marks depend on WAY too many unrelated variables to provide a strict answer. Nobody really cared when the Verthandi Rebels were throwing infernos at Drac infantry.  A whole lot of people cared when the Amaris Dragoons were throwing infernos at SLDF infantry (and techs, and administrators, and civilians, and really anyone else who wasn't them and who was in range).

Clan (Omni)Mechs and Std Structure
With a Clan mech that isn't Endosteel, how does it work for getting components, say a new RL given Clan case?

Can you replace with IS and simply lose the Clan Case benefit?
Do you need to replace with a Clan component and if so, is it still the 14+ TN?
I'm fine if it is, just trying to understand how that works.

You guys are overthinking this really, really, really, really, really, hard.

What matters is the TECH BASE of the unit in question.  That's what controls the other stuff.  To whit, there are 4 total possibilities right now which you guys have raised:

1) A Standard Internal Structure Mech with a Clan Tech Base gets CASE for free on any ammunition-bearing locations
2) An Endo-steel Structure Mech with a Clan Tech Base gets CASE for free on any ammunition-bearing locations
3) A Standard Internal Structure Mech with an Inner Sphere Tech Base must add CASE as a separate line item
4) An Endo-steel Structure Mech with an Inner Sphere Tech Base must add CASE as a separate line item

Let's use the Rifleman as an example.  Record Sheets are found in Record Sheets 3085 Unabridged - Project Phoenix.

-The Rifleman 9T (an Inner Sphere tech base Mech) has CASE found as a separate line item in the Left Torso.
-The Rifleman C (an Inner Sphere tech base Mech, with Mixed-Tech weaponry) has ammunition in the CT, but does not have CASE listed as either a line item OR adjacent to the location title.
-The Rifleman IIC2 (a Clan tech base Mech) doesn't have CASE as a separate line item at all, but has CASE listed in parentheticals next to the location title of both the Right and Left Torso.  Note that if you were to modify the Rifleman IIC2 to move the ammo to the Right Arm, the Right Arm would "sprout" CASE to cover that ammunition, again, not at a separate line item.

So whenever you incorporate a Clan Tech Base location replacement into a design, that means it gets CASE in that location for free.  The trick is that in our campaign, you can only incorporate a Clan Tech Base location replacement into a Clan Tech base Mech (that is, you cannot put a Rifleman IIC2 Left Torso into a Rifleman 9T).  Doing THAT requires the FrankenMech rules, which I am 200% not willing to deal with. 

So, for purposes of Scrounge Rolls, it doesn't matter whether the Clan Tech Base component is standard or endo-steel.  It's Clan Tech base, which has its own separate Scrounge TN.

Prisoners
Can prisoners be released prior to contract end and would there be any restrictions?

No, they cannot. Unless there's an event like a "prisoner escape", once a prisoner slot is filled, it's filled until the end of the contract.  If you want more slots, spend XP to buy better Lance Leader Skills/Attributes.

[Ice]

Was worth a poke at the logic machine on thestandard part extrapolation possibility. I figured that would be the outcome but I tried lol