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[Ice]

Just want to make sure I toss this out there to clarify with the new ruleset.

I just noticed the change with multi slot equipment. I thought it was fine at first but now I have more questions than answers. It took me down a rabbit hole that every layer I just found something else on it that brought what if/what is (intent)/how to (fix/make sense).

What is considered multi slot? Is this another way of saying multi crit equipment like ECM (I assume this is correct)? Is this meaning equipment across upper and lower sections (ex/ C3M across upper lower) of say a torso or arm location only? Is there equipment that actually goes across multiple mech locations (A4, ac20 if weapons are intended to be in this)?

Base unmodifiable TN10 to save seems harsh for something that normally would already depending on its damage and size might be easy or hard to begin with to repair. It seems like a double redundancy to the master repair table or makes it pointless/unnecessary in some ways. I get if the equipment lost half+ of its slots but single or double crits on stuff like C3M Tcomps. These will almost never survive a single crit on TN10.

C3M for example

base 9
Regular tech  7
2 crits (+2)

base 8
vet tech 6
2 crits (+2)

base 7
elite 5
2 crits (+2)
Failure means equipment is scrapped regardless and need a whole new part and the cycle of techs starts again.

This is obviously before location mod and time mods. You get a max of -5 realistically to the TN in defend, -3 in basic and a +1 in field (I believe). Locations matter, item size matters, number of crits matter, techs obviously matter. I pay the repair taxes of time, tech assignment and RNG for each of these. These are not given successes in every case as the RNG gods are fickle.

It doesn't make sense for a single crit hit on c3m to be outright gone on tn10 when I can repair it somewhere between fairly simple and a 50/50. I get that sometimes a golden BB hits and it just bounces around inside shredding it all. Others they are modular and its drop in connect cables test. I would think this would be more of successful TN8+ it can't be fixed vs a save of TN10. Some stuff just doesn't make sense that it can't be fixed based on what it needed to repair it prior. It gets even more rough if you get a random reward or salvage for experimental stuff like partial wings (we are only a few years off from CJF having them possibly/also unsure if those are considered components). Losing a partial wing as experimental on a mech means it's basically sold since you can't replace it let alone repair the base unit. Also means it may not be salvageable in the first place for stuff like TComps or CDHS. May as well say good riddance even with those as advanced tech. Almost any equipment that has been hit and salvaged is going to be gone based on a TN10. Good luck for anyone that doesn't have a good scrounge let alone RNG luck. That's without the do I manage to get the item repaired after that as the other factors still apply.

There isn't a way to remove this item to customize out of it in the instance I can't replace it unless the fully repair stipulation no longer exists. This essentially forces the sale of a mech outright that wouldn't need to be otherwise. If for some reason the engine, gyro, life support, weapons are rolled into this somehow (which I doubt) we won't have a force in short order let alone salvage. (I assume they are not as they are more integral components, weapons, or armor. That's even if I view them as forms/types of equipment) I do not see anywhere that a unit has to be fully repaired to be customized anymore or wingman restrictions. I can agree in premise the components (actuators engine gyro etc), armor, structure sections should be repaired before modifications can be made. I would recommend that a unit that can't replace due to impossible TN rolls or tech restrictions rolls be allowed to scrap the equipment and modify at a penalty into/utilizing the slot.

This really just has a full negative cascade effect for any mech salvaged or that takes a hit under these conditions. I can't see a way to eliminate the issues it brings up.

[Darrian Wolffe]

I just noticed the change with multi slot equipment. I thought it was fine at first but now I have more questions than answers. It took me down a rabbit hole that every layer I just found something else on it that brought what if/what is (intent)/how to (fix/make sense).

Being able to repair equipment which has taken a critical hit on a 10+ is directly out of Campaign Operations (p199), which we were coming into compliance with. 



Multi-slot equipment is any weapon or equipment (engines and gyros aren't equipment) which requires multiple contiguous slots.

[Ice]

I just noticed the change with multi slot equipment. I thought it was fine at first but now I have more questions than answers. It took me down a rabbit hole that every layer I just found something else on it that brought what if/what is (intent)/how to (fix/make sense).

Being able to repair equipment which has taken a critical hit on a 10+ is directly out of Campaign Operations (p199), which we were coming into compliance with. 



Multi-slot equipment is any weapon or equipment (engines and gyros aren't equipment) which requires multiple contiguous slots.

That is wild and likely to be a large impact. Single crit equals item kill essentially. Based on what snippet has it extends to weapons as well. Why even have expansion of repairs for multi crit items if the item is almost certainly destroyed on a single crit+? That affects so much outside of player controlled unit's. Salvage could have 0 weapons, getting any equipment that's been hit is basically 0. Good luck to people who get hit hard in a mission for a contract.

Guess we will see how it goes.

[Ad Hoc]

I just noticed the change with multi slot equipment. I thought it was fine at first but now I have more questions than answers. It took me down a rabbit hole that every layer I just found something else on it that brought what if/what is (intent)/how to (fix/make sense).

Being able to repair equipment which has taken a critical hit on a 10+ is directly out of Campaign Operations (p199), which we were coming into compliance with. 



Multi-slot equipment is any weapon or equipment (engines and gyros aren't equipment) which requires multiple contiguous slots.

That is wild and likely to be a large impact. Single crit equals item kill essentially. Based on what snippet has it extends to weapons as well. Why even have expansion of repairs for multi crit items if the item is almost certainly destroyed on a single crit+? That affects so much outside of player controlled unit's. Salvage could have 0 weapons, getting any equipment that's been hit is basically 0. Good luck to people who get hit hard in a mission for a contract.

Guess we will see how it goes.

Destroyed location means all internal structure of an arm, leg, torso, or head. A crit slot are the spaces in the location that the weapons and equipment fill.

If a med laser in an arm that still has internal structure, takes a crit, it is destroyed. But now you can roll a 10+ and have chance to repair it. An AC10 in the same arm takes 2 crit would not need to make the same 10+ roll but be repaired using multi crit slot rules.

If all the internal structure has been destroyed, then anything in a crit slot is destroyed even if it did not take a critical hit during game, this included actuators. But can be saved on a 10+ roll. And any saved can be repaired if it took a critical hit during game play using the repair rules. The same med laser and AC10 with same crit hits, in an arm that has all internal structure destroyed, has a chance to be repairable. First roll for 10+ for each item in the arm. If successful, then repair per rules.

Sorry, after reading the snippet again, I believe I am wrong. It does look like all components that take a critical hit or is in a body location that loses all internal structure, must have roll of 10+ to see if it can even be repaired or salvaged. And if all the crit slots for a component is hit then the item is destroyed. That is going to make it harder to get units back online because of limited warehouse space.

[Darrian Wolffe]

Sorry, after reading the snippet again, I believe I am wrong. It does look like all components that take a critical hit or is in a body location that loses all internal structure, must have roll of 10+ to see if it can even be repaired or salvaged. And if all the crit slots for a component is hit then the item is destroyed. That is going to make it harder to get units back online because of limited warehouse space.

Yeah, just so you have a deeper explanation, your interpretation *is* correct for StratOps-era rules.  An item had a 10+ save to be repairable when a location was destroyed, and otherwise it was only ever 100% guaranteed to be destroyed if all critical slots were hit.  However, that was changed in CampOps to what was posted above.  It *is* a change to the previous rules, and a relatively recent one. 

Note that this is also a change from Age of War/BMR-era rules, where a single critical hit to a weapon or equipment item always, 100% of the time, destroyed an item, no matter how many crit slots it had.  And everything in the location was automatically destroyed - with no save at all - when the location was run out of internal structure.

[Hat]

Overall I'm good with the change.  Looking back at my 'Mechs that I still have to fix though arguably are being done on the old rules, here's what I've got.

Marauder crits - Left Arm Actuator (destroyed, no change), Engine - 3 hits (multi-crit, repairable, not impacted, no change)
Banshee crits - Right Hip (destroyed, no change), HGR Ammo bin (destroyed, no change), LA PPC (1 crit of 3, would require a 2d6 roll)
Battlemaster crits - Engine - 1 hit (multi-crit, repairable, not impacted, no change), DHS (1 crit of 3, would require a 2d6 roll)

Shadow Cat D (salvage) crits - 2 gyro (multi-crit, repairable, not impacted, no change), RT destroyed, everything already lost, no change

Net effect: Two extra rolls during repairs, of which there are already going to be a ton, so not a significant add.  I'm likely to lose 1 PPC and 1 DHS in a battle where 3 of my units took at least 2 crits worth of internal damage.  Not a huge deal. 

I may need to manage my warehouse a bit differently.  It increases the likelihood that I'm out of key parts for specific mechs, so I may rethink lance config.

Autocannons are the big losers as they are high number of crits to weight.  Omnis just got even more useful.  Whether you have your ideal mix of weapons per mission may be different, but you're likely still able to field all of your preferred units regardless of this change.  Net, still happy to see what happens with this.

[Randicore]

So I've been looking through more mechs and I found an edgecase I'm curious about.

The IS Viper mech is based on a crusader chassis in lore. It's just a crusader refit with Blasers and pulse lasers instead of missile racks. In the situation that I reconfigure a crusader to match the specs of a Viper would it be considered a customized mech still or would it now count as a non customized cannon design? OR would I need a refit kit to pull that off?

[deadlyfire2345]

Is there an expanded dropship availability table that goes out further than our rules 3050 or is that our only options?

[ADHDtv]

If a LAM is deployed on a mission where primary deployment is dropship drop off, may a LAM instead enter the board in fighter mode and perform the normal mode shift work instead?

[Darrian Wolffe]

If a LAM is deployed on a mission where primary deployment is dropship drop off, may a LAM instead enter the board in fighter mode and perform the normal mode shift work instead?

Essentially.  It can "land" by shifting to AirMech mode at 1 level over ground level, but without actually touching down (you're basically just entering into hover mode).  That's the safest way to do it (and literally why the original hybrid mode for Veritech fighters existed in the first place).  Or it can drop straight to Mech mode and land as a Mech, as per usual.

[Darrian Wolffe]

Is there an expanded dropship availability table that goes out further than our rules 3050 or is that our only options?

If you want something that's not on the table, talk to me.  The DropShip availability Table in HM,WT v6 goes out to 3075, though, so we should be good for a minute.

[Hat]

I understand that Mech Pilots can't get Tech skills.  Can they pick up Battle Armor skills?  Scout Armor requires piloting and uses Small Arms typically in place of gunnery.  I have a Wingman who's already got 3 SPAs, 2 EDG, 2/3 and has 63 XP.  I could make them 2/2 and add an extra weight class, but I'd be 17 XP away from nothing to spend XP on other than 45 to improve Small Arms to +5.  She's not the unit's XO, is already 44, so not likely to replace the CO either.  Mech Tech would make sense, but I understand not being allowed to for game balance purposes.

[Darrian Wolffe]

I understand that Mech Pilots can't get Tech skills.  Can they pick up Battle Armor skills? 

I don't think it would ever actually be relevant, but sure.  Go for it.  Call it a flat 30 XP for 'Battle armor qualification' (to make sure their physical attributes - which aren't tracked for wingman - are high enough to allow for BA piloting; IIRC it's STR 6 BOD 6 at a minimum to pilot BA without injury), and then they can buy BA skills after that. 

[Hat]

Rob, my recollection is that the Dictator that came over from 1st Regiment had upgraded Mech maintenance bays that allowed for Maintenance Facility while in transit.  Is that correct?  Looking at p.40 for the current rules packet it notes dropships in transit are Basic Facilities.  Not sure if I'm misremembering, if it's effectively an exception to the rule (special equipment) or if new rules overrides previous. I'm fine with whatever, just would like to know.  Thanks.

[Darrian Wolffe]

Rob, my recollection is that the Dictator that came over from 1st Regiment had upgraded Mech maintenance bays that allowed for Maintenance Facility while in transit.  Is that correct?  Looking at p.40 for the current rules packet it notes dropships in transit are Basic Facilities.  Not sure if I'm misremembering, if it's effectively an exception to the rule (special equipment) or if new rules overrides previous. I'm fine with whatever, just would like to know.  Thanks.

CGL changed the rule.  Mech bays used to count as Maintenance Facilities, and they changed it to Basic during the first Rangers campaign.  We grandfathered over the Dictator and "upgrades" were the in universe explanation.  That doesn't apply to the current campaign; DropShip Mech Bays in the current game are Basic Facilities.