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Author Topic: Shadowrun, chummers! Do you speak it?  (Read 32099 times)

Knightofargh

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Re: Shadowrun, chummers! Do you speak it?
« Reply #15 on: August 25, 2010, 04:28:17 PM »

Question - what happens if we totally, inadvertently break the system? I have no intention of doing so, but Weird Shit tends to happen when I'm around.

We talk about it like rational people and find a way to rebuild the character that both doesn't break the system AND keeps as much of your existing PC as possible.  Crazy and visionary, I know.  :P

So no Thor-shot followed by Pope frantically re-rolling?  I am dissapoint.
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Critias

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Re: Shadowrun, chummers! Do you speak it?
« Reply #16 on: August 25, 2010, 05:28:42 PM »

It's nice to see you on the forums around here Rusty! 

Texas is awesome isn't it?  Screw Herb.
Thanks, man.  Yeah, the Lone Star's been great to me so far.  It's been fun seeing some of it from a motorcycle, too.   ;D  Great roads for riding on, that's for sure.  And yeah, that whole...thing...over at CBT just kind of rubbed me the wrong way.  Oh well.  I'll keep laying low for a while, yadda yadda yadda, and won't be submitting any fiction to 'em any time soon, I guess.

Quote
Presumably the same Critias of DSF fame?
Yup, that's me.  And over on the Privateer Press forums, and Glocktalk, and...yeah.  I try to use the same user name everywhere I go, and tend to have good luck about it not bein' taken yet.  :)

Back to smartlinks/cybereyes:  Personally, I don't see how someone with contact lenses or cool sunglasses can get those other smartlink bonuses.  I guess one could argue that a "mental command" could be sent via contact lenses if you blink your eyes three times to eject the magazine from your smartgun, or something...but how do you do it with goggles, or glasses, and would the GM then have you start switching your firing mode, dropping your magazine, or firing your gun whenever something made you blink?  ;)

It's a "common sense" ruling on my part, but I only let folds with implanted smartlinks get some of those little extras.  The heads-up display on goggles can sure tell you how much ammunition is left in a magazine, let you do the guncam thing, and displays where the gun's pointed (to get you that +2 dice)...but I don't see how it lets you change from semi-auto to burst-fire.  I'll readily admit that it's only MY take on things, and that my take doesn't matter in this conversation since I'm not even playing in the game -- just sharing my thoughts, is all.

I do want to point out that the mage with cybereyes is nothing new to SR4, or 4A.  Mages have always been able to -- if they so choose -- dabble in cyberware, and be able to cast spells through most implanted cyberoptics (they paid their Essence and earned their boost).  Given how attributes are payed for in 4th, it's not as good an idea as it used to be...buying the extra-steep "6" in Magic only to then knock it down a peg just so you can see in the dark isn't always a great trade-off.  I like Mages having the option to make that trade, and I don't think it's that that makes them potentially overpowering.

I think it's more just...well...the nature of direct combat spells in SR4, and the declining dangers of Drain from edition to edition.  It's worth pointing out, also, that in the long run I think Possession traditions are potentially quite a bit more game-breaking than direct combat spells, but that's a different ball of wax entirely.  I don't think you guys will run afoul of some of the munchkinny douchebaggery the way other groups might, but it's still stuff to keep an eye out for.
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agustaaquila

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Re: Shadowrun, chummers! Do you speak it?
« Reply #17 on: August 25, 2010, 05:44:20 PM »

What, you don't think my voodoo spirit summoning mage with only 2 spells works.  (those 2 spells being destroy guns and destroy comlinks).  Wait, that was a broken GM character from one of the scrambles. 

Yes mages can quickly become broken with direct combat spells.  However, we as I group are mature enough to not min max unless we want to get blown out of the water.

The real way to look at this is like Herb views ATOW.  Any system can be minmaxed, and its not the job of the system to prevent this.  Its a mutual decision made between a GM and players on how they want to play the game.
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Darrian Wolffe

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Re: Shadowrun, chummers! Do you speak it?
« Reply #18 on: August 25, 2010, 06:11:06 PM »

The real way to look at this is like Herb views ATOW.  Any system can be minmaxed, and its not the job of the system to prevent this.  Its a mutual decision made between a GM and players on how they want to play the game.



(And if the mutual decision doesn't work, I'll always have Cows From Orbit.)
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ItsTehPope

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Re: Shadowrun, chummers! Do you speak it?
« Reply #19 on: August 25, 2010, 06:19:34 PM »

Question - what happens if we totally, inadvertently break the system? I have no intention of doing so, but Weird Shit tends to happen when I'm around.

We talk about it like rational people and find a way to rebuild the character that both doesn't break the system AND keeps as much of your existing PC as possible.  Crazy and visionary, I know.  :P

WHAT?!  Reasonable discussion around the game table?!  RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE.

Thats what I figured - but you never know when Lofwyr has a bib and some BBQ sauce around.
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agustaaquila

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Re: Shadowrun, chummers! Do you speak it?
« Reply #20 on: August 25, 2010, 06:45:14 PM »






< Looks at chest>  That can't be right, I don't have a PPC growing out of my torso.

But undershadowrun rules, I could get close.

(Why yes, this is a Btech site primary)
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Knightofargh

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Re: Shadowrun, chummers! Do you speak it?
« Reply #21 on: August 25, 2010, 08:50:27 PM »

Is it wrong that when I run into a guy at the gas station occasionally wearing a Hyde Park Painting and Carpentry shirt and my brain immediately wonders how he has a HPPC this early in the timeline?

Other SR4 issues to look out for, based on my reading of the system and perusing the munch-masters at DSF:

Firearms skills are lame and ill divided, even though suggested by RAW I believe "semi-automatic" should not be a specialization of pistols.  Automatics is king since we all know firing an AR-15 (longarms) is totally different than firing an M-16 set to semi (automatics).  As you know I've been a shooter for many years.  I'm asininely pedantic about weapon classifications.

As Critias said the direct combat spells are a bit wonky.  Stunball overcast is a TPK most of the time since it's really difficult to stage.

With optimization mages can get stupid, there's lots of stuff that can reduce drain or add drain dice.  It's relatively easy to break 20 dice on drain tests.

Street Magic and Runner's Companion need to be burned down and then sunk in the swamp.  Specifically all the furry SURGE crap and the following two spells: Orgy and Orgasm.  Willpower resist at force hits or be useless for hours.  DragonQuest earth mages look balanced.

Yup, that's me.  And over on the Privateer Press forums, and Glocktalk, and...yeah.  I try to use the same user name everywhere I go, and tend to have good luck about it not bein' taken yet.  :)

Back to smartlinks/cybereyes:  Personally, I don't see how someone with contact lenses or cool sunglasses can get those other smartlink bonuses.  I guess one could argue that a "mental command" could be sent via contact lenses if you blink your eyes three times to eject the magazine from your smartgun, or something...but how do you do it with goggles, or glasses, and would the GM then have you start switching your firing mode, dropping your magazine, or firing your gun whenever something made you blink?  ;)

I do want to point out that the mage with cybereyes is nothing new to SR4, or 4A.  Mages have always been able to -- if they so choose -- dabble in cyberware, and be able to cast spells through most implanted cyberoptics (they paid their Essence and earned their boost).  Given how attributes are payed for in 4th, it's not as good an idea as it used to be...buying the extra-steep "6" in Magic only to then knock it down a peg just so you can see in the dark isn't always a great trade-off.  I like Mages having the option to make that trade, and I don't think it's that that makes them potentially overpowering.

I'd call the contact lens functions eyeball pointing with a double eye blink to select possible, heck it's possible with 2010 technology if you enjoy low wattage lasers on your eyeball.  Not a huge fan of the whole mages with cybereyes thing.  I think it's worse in SR4 since it's relatively cheap to buy Magic 5 at character generation, get your eyes that knock you down to 4 and then initiate after your first run for 2 karma to get back to Magic 5.

As a Walther shooter I stand in awe of Glocktalk, don't like Glocks but you guys did have Gecko45.  And Gecko45 is awesome, how awesome?  http://lonelymachines.org/mall-ninjas/

I'm also knightofargh pretty much everywhere, you may remember me from such conversations on DSF as trying to convince kerenshera that 9x19 isn't a light round.  Light rounds are things like .25 ACP and 9x18.

edit: speeling
« Last Edit: August 25, 2010, 08:55:55 PM by Knightofargh »
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Darrian Wolffe

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Re: Shadowrun, chummers! Do you speak it?
« Reply #22 on: August 25, 2010, 09:02:43 PM »

As a Walther shooter I stand in awe of Glocktalk, don't like Glocks but you guys did have Gecko45.  And Gecko45 is awesome, how awesome?  http://lonelymachines.org/mall-ninjas/

Oh god...can't...stop...laughing...

Hurts my sides...crying from laughter...if I die...tell my wife...Hello...
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Knightofargh

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Re: Shadowrun, chummers! Do you speak it?
« Reply #23 on: August 25, 2010, 09:08:10 PM »

Figured at least one of us would appreciate the Shrine of the Mall Ninjaâ„¢ as much as I do.
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Juniantara

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Re: Shadowrun, chummers! Do you speak it?
« Reply #24 on: August 25, 2010, 09:09:44 PM »

She who makes the plans is in, and bringing KnightofArgh with me.
Now I'm actually going to have to read the 4e rules.
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Darrian Wolffe

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Re: Shadowrun, chummers! Do you speak it?
« Reply #25 on: August 25, 2010, 09:13:26 PM »

She who makes the plans is in, and bringing KnightofArgh with me.
Now I'm actually going to have to read the 4e rules.

Cool.  Can you get him to stop bitching about the rules long enough for me to read them and TRY to make them work in-game?   ;) ;D

So that looks like a starting group of:

Mike
Dan
Brent
Brett
Rusty (in spirit at least - sorry man  :-\ )

So, that's 4 people, enough to start the ball rolling.  Anybody else?  We'll talk over lunch this Saturday about stuffs...
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Knightofargh

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Re: Shadowrun, chummers! Do you speak it?
« Reply #26 on: August 25, 2010, 09:18:44 PM »

Cool.  Can you get him to stop bitching about the rules long enough for me to read them and TRY to make them work in-game?

No one can stop my bitching!  Don't make me rock out my ninja-tao on you...

You're planning on straight BBB for this game correct?
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Darrian Wolffe

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Re: Shadowrun, chummers! Do you speak it?
« Reply #27 on: August 25, 2010, 09:40:33 PM »

You're planning on straight BBB for this game correct?

Not familiar with the acronym.
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Knightofargh

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Re: Shadowrun, chummers! Do you speak it?
« Reply #28 on: August 25, 2010, 09:44:51 PM »

Big Black Book, old school SR description for the core book.
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Critias

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Re: Shadowrun, chummers! Do you speak it?
« Reply #29 on: August 25, 2010, 11:24:21 PM »

Rusty (in spirit at least - sorry man  :-\ )
Hey, I can still offer emotional/canon/lore/whatever support, as needed.  I'd pit my SR collection against...well...anyone's, anywhere, actually.   ;D  Just PM me if you have some obscure background questions or anything, man, or to pick my brain for horrible, monstrous, unholy, things to do to the poor, unsuspecting, bastards -- err, I mean, players.
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