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[Raven_X]

Ok, so, probably not the best place to post this, but as it would occur in this campaign, why not.  I would like to propose a test for how we run initiative.  The thought behind this is, if it works, to propose this to speed up initiative at the big con games, and in a way, give more of an incentive to run smaller mechs in those battles.  Simply put, I propose stealing a page from Leviathans, and simply roll for init, loser moves assaults, winner assaults, loser heavies, winner heavies, etc etc.  As displayed in Rob's massive Lev's game, it seemed to be rather efficient.  Thoughts?

[phlop]

Not knowing Leviathans rules, do you roll for each weight class?

[ItsTehPope]

Not knowing Leviathans rules, do you roll for each weight class?

Force Commander's roll off for all weight classes.  Loser moves Assaults, Winner moves assaults etc.

[Raven_X]

Still a single init roll, then units are moved in weight class order.

[phlop]

So, if my force is 1 Hvy, 2 Md. and 1 lt. and my opponent has 1 assault, 2 md., and 1 lt.. I lose init roll, he moves his assault first, then I move my hvy's. and he moves his.
If this is the way it works, I don't see why we couldn't try it. I do like the card system for moving init.

[Raven_X]

Yes, that would be how it would work.  The thought being first: to eliminate the confusion of "ok, who is moving now, am I up? are you done? was I supposed to have moved?" out of the equation in larger scale games.  While in our group it works well, at cons it can get frustrating sometimes.  Second: to make lighter mechs more viable in larger games.  I think we can all attest to lights and mediums being almost worthless against a heavier force.  This would give them a more accurate depiction of the tactical advantage they have in a larger scale fight, being more of a reactionary type unit.

Ideally we would test under both evenly matched (or close to it) forces and very lopsided forces (heavies and assaults vs lights and mediums)  This may also help in balancing reinforcements which is always an issue at cons, as lighter units may be able to fight more effectively against a heavier opponent.

[Darrian Wolffe]

The system Andy is proposing really does work well in giving people a reason to take lighter units on the battlefield.  It's been put forth before - I want to say in one of the earlier BattleTechnology magazines at the very least.  Battlespace tried this out as well.  There's only three downsides, but they're really big ones:

1) We'll never - never - be able to use it at conventions.  It's too different from regular BT play.  For home games, 100% cool, though.
2) Once an assault or heavy has a medium Mech in it's back, it'll never ever shake it.  The lighter unit ALWAYS moves after it does, with no possibility of this changing.  Now, to a point, this is a good thing that encourages you to take a balanced force so you have somebody to scrape your back (or forces you to move in a mutually-supporting formation).  But there's enough medium Mechs out there that have the firepower to blow through even an Assault's back armor in one go that it no longer represents the game universe's view of Assault mechs being "kings of the battlefield".
3) A heavier unit can never make a charge or DFA attack against a lighter unit in a different weight class.  Physically impossible under these rules.

I like it, and I'm willing to try it.  But #2&3 were serious problems with BattleSpace, and they can be serious problems with Leviathans, and they'll be serious problems with BT if we use it.

[Raven_X]

Noted, the only one of the objections that truly concerns me is the physicals, I had not thought of that.  I do believe people at the canon table at cons would be willing to try it, we have done some funky things with init before at cons, and its generally well taken, as it is a matter of speeding up the game and getting more killing done.  MOST of the players who come to the big table recognize the logistical nightmare that initiative presents on such a scale, and are willing to have some fudge factor in it.

That being said, the physicals are enough to make me think this is not such a good idea.  I can see it for levs, as lets face it, even in the movies, how often does the big ship say "well, we're screwed, lets ram the little guy" and the little guy doesn't just GTFO?

[phlop]

I did not look at what the assualt would have once a lighter mech got his backside. The physicals would definitely never happen.
The one that I had thought about was the convention. When I read about what dice can be used in events, I figured this would never fly. Still could try it.

[Black Omega]

It sounds similar to what we did for the space battle breaking out of the Terran system....warships then dropships then fighters.  

I was reading up on the advanced space init in S.O. page 63.  There it gives fighters +3 bonus to init as a piloting based "control roll".  MoS + or - bonuses for space vehicle size.  This could be adapted to ground forces.  +3 lights, +2 med, +1 hvy, +0 assault  Since it is MoS/piloting based, a good pilot in an assault stands a fair chance to beat the light's init to "scrape him off of his back."

[agustaaquila]

I would hate this style of init for the style of mech I am playing.  Part of the draw of the EXT is that is is a heavy with high mobility for a medium of its era.  Were this to become a rule, some mechs intentionally designed to be backstabers with no armor would become useless.

If this were to be a rule for a game, I know that I would be going to NPC the game.  Its not that I don't like change or trying things out, its just that it completely invalidates the style of game I am playing right now.

[Darrian Wolffe]

I would hate this style of init for the style of mech I am playing.  Part of the draw of the EXT is that is is a heavy with high mobility for a medium of its era.  Were this to become a rule, some mechs intentionally designed to be backstabers with no armor would become useless.

If this were to be a rule for a game, I know that I would be going to NPC the game.  Its not that I don't like change or trying things out, its just that it completely invalidates the style of game I am playing right now.

Mike, that's an excellent point that I don't think any of us thought of.  Well put.

[Raven_X]

Excellent points everyone, obviously this system would not be an improvement over the current card system, which is all I was looking for. (not that the card system is bad, I just want games to move as quickly and smoothly as possible)

On a side note, I should be able to make the game this saturday, but I will probably need to leave a bit early, perhaps around 3.