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Reactor: Online.  Sensors: Online.  Weapons: Online.  All systems nominal.

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Author Topic: Future of Cincy BT  (Read 9814 times)

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Re: Future of Cincy BT
« Reply #45 on: October 15, 2015, 07:13:28 PM »

Next question - for customizing 'mechs, do jump jets count as equipment or motive type?

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Darrian Wolffe

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Re: Future of Cincy BT
« Reply #46 on: October 15, 2015, 07:25:34 PM »

Never having played warchest before, is this an accurate summary?

2. Unit creation is completed on a pilot independent force creation.  Bidding is done according to pilot adjusted BVs

Bidding has nothing to do with BV.  Otherwise, yes.


One other question - with custom units provided by an appropriate logistics score, it's a unit not a point, right?  So if you wanted a custom ASF point, it would require at least Priority C for 2 ASF units to be customized.

Correct.

Next question - for customizing 'mechs, do jump jets count as equipment or motive type?

As they are something which can be pod-mounted, they qualify as equipment.  The intent of the customization limitations is to prevent people from doing things completely outside the bounds of how Clan customizations work.  For example, giving a Hellbringer an endo-steel structure, or making any unit from a Mech into a LAM or Quad-Vee.  When you're working within pod space, you use the usual pod space customization guidelines.  Clanners don't perform the "total conversions" that IS Mercs do (completely replacing skeleton, armor, heat sinks, engines), and these rules reflect that.
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Ad Hoc

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Re: Future of Cincy BT
« Reply #47 on: October 16, 2015, 06:31:25 AM »

In the force creation section, we have some options for customizing the rolled results.  In regards to the first option "1) Once only, a player may trade an ASF point for either a Medium Mech Point, a Vehicle Point, or a Battle Armor Point."  Can this work in reverse to be able to get an ASF point or can there be a 5th option to be able to get an ASF point?  Because I only see 3 chances to get an ASF point in the Star Composition Table.

I know we are not talking actual game play yet but, if we do have ASF flying, are we using the rules for special maneuvers to be used only at beginning of round or doing a house rule that they can be used at anytime during movement.  I vote for house ruling  ;D.

Also, Rob this looks great! (^_^)b Thanks for always tryng to keep things fun and exciting.
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Re: Future of Cincy BT
« Reply #48 on: October 16, 2015, 08:45:14 AM »

Rob, thanks for the clarifications.  What you've proposed looks like a lot of fun.  Kudos!  If you don't have a dice roller on the boards and I can't make the next game, I'd be fine with you rolling the dice for me.  I'd just need to make my avatar selections first because of the possible logistics impact.

Mike, given the clans use of Zellbrigin I'm not sure that a lack of aerospace fighters is really a problem.  They might be handy to have if the OpFor also has them, but would likely be bid away under most circumstances.  Or at least that's my guess.  I haven't done a clan bidding game before.

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Re: Future of Cincy BT
« Reply #49 on: October 16, 2015, 08:55:08 AM »

After force creation and prior to the first game, can warchest points be spent - Edge for Star Commanders, loading advanced ammo, customization of units - or does all that wait until after the first battle?  I'm good either way, just want to understand what the options are.

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Timberwolfd

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Re: Future of Cincy BT
« Reply #50 on: October 17, 2015, 04:16:48 PM »

For a clan WoR campaign we should probably add proto mech to the rules system.  Treat them like battle armor with higher repair costs?

I think the rules are looking pretty good overall.  I would like to see the repair of customized units be addressed a little more finely though.  Would it cause too much trouble to break customizations into 2 or 3 categories with the simple/small modifications being a smaller increase say 10-25% vs. Major refits being the full increase.  Basically, pulling a system and replacing the weight with armor or a heatsink is small, adding new criticals, changing more than X systems, or changing type (armor, internal, etc.) Is major.  If your techs could do the work in an arbitrary number of hours in a given facility type by the start ops rules would be another way to split them.  Make it the player's responsibility to show the difficulty.

Edit: Can we reorganize points after unit generation?
« Last Edit: October 17, 2015, 05:42:17 PM by Timberwolfd »
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Black Omega

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Re: Future of Cincy BT
« Reply #51 on: October 17, 2015, 09:09:57 PM »

Rob, will war chest points be able
to convert to xp to purchase SPA's at a later time? 
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agustaaquila

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Re: Future of Cincy BT
« Reply #52 on: October 17, 2015, 10:51:58 PM »

Just for the record, I am in favor of protos as well.
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Re: Future of Cincy BT
« Reply #53 on: October 17, 2015, 10:53:18 PM »

Given that SPAs are less balanced than P/G increases and those won't be included, I'd be surprised if you can buy those later.

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Darrian Wolffe

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Re: Future of Cincy BT
« Reply #54 on: October 17, 2015, 11:04:53 PM »

Rob, will war chest points be able to convert to xp to purchase SPA's at a later time? 

No.  However, since almost everybody likes advancement systems, there will most likely be a way to advance your Avatar's stats.  If there is, to keep things simple, it'll most likely be a combination of "you have to have your Avatar participate in X scenarios, AND must have Y number of kills to advance one Category upwards by Priority Level."  So, for example (EXAMPLE, NOT SET IN STONE RULE) you play 5 scenarios and have scored 3 kills with your Avatar, so you may advance any single Category - in this case Logistics - from Priority D to Priority C.  If you took SPAs from Priority B to A, you'd get the difference in XP to spend, but obviously you'd have to meet any pre-requisites for the new SPA.

Oh, and I'm going to arbitrarily raise the price of the Jumping Jack SPA, likely to 250 or so. 


For a clan WoR campaign we should probably add proto mech to the rules system.  Treat them like battle armor with higher repair costs?

There was a reason I didn't include them, but I can't remember right now what it is.  IIRC it was a combination of "Society Protos are bullshit" and, "the table doesn't have a lot of room to include them as additional options."  The latter can be adjusted - most likely by allowing a direct substitution of an ASF point for a ProtoMech point, or allowing you to swap up to 1d3 Mech points for ProtoMech points (Light Mech = 2-4 tons Proto Point; Medium = 5-6 tons; Heavy = 7-8 tons; Assault = 9+ tons).  But then we get into the issue of you can mix and match Proto types and masses inside the same Point, and it just gets very complex, very fast.

Protos are cool and add a new dimension to gameplay.  They're just complex as hell to implement, and I'm more than a little nervous about stuff like, "everyone replacing all Mechs under 45 tons with points of all Sprites."

Quote
I think the rules are looking pretty good overall.  I would like to see the repair of customized units be addressed a little more finely though.  Would it cause too much trouble to break customizations into 2 or 3 categories...

Kind of, yeah.  A really big thing in Warchest is simplicity - a repair of your Mech is always its tonnage in WCP, whether it's got no limbs, no head, and 1 point of IS on the CT left, or whether it's taken 1 point of armor damage.  Breaking down repairs like this both adds a ton of complexity, and it's always going to be frankly arbitrary where we draw lines between "minor" and "major" refits.  I appreciate making the player prove the difficulty, but the practical effect of that is to punish our players who have relatively full "real" lives (between kids and work) and don't/can't spend the time to min/max refits vis a vis WCP costs; we've learned that in our full-on AccounTech-style campaigns.

Quote
Edit: Can we reorganize points after unit generation?

No.  The point of the rolling and allowed post-roll unit adjustments is to provide a little customizability.  However, Clanners mix weights heavily in most Stars; full Stars of light or Assault Mechs are rare, and that rarity is intentionally modeled in the table.  The middle of the bell curve are the mix-weight medium-heavy units msot commonly found in canon material.  What I don't want to see is people organizing 15 Mechs into a Star of 4 Assault and 1 Heavy, a Star of 4 Heavies and a Medium, and a Star of a Medium and 4 Lights...and then always bidding away the Medium/Light Star first thing because they're not comparatively giving up that much firepower.  Again, that's not how Clanners operate.  There's no way to freely allow point reorganization without that becoming an issue, so folks have to work with what the dice give them (allowing for the various ways already allowed which you can modify what the dice give you).
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Black Omega

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Re: Future of Cincy BT
« Reply #55 on: October 18, 2015, 08:02:26 AM »

Rob,
Will the warchest rewards be sufficient to repair units so if one chose logistics F the unit will not be ground into nothing?

Also, does full repair of unit include reload or do you have to spend the wcp to reload too?
« Last Edit: October 18, 2015, 08:12:01 AM by Black Omega »
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Riegien

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Re: Future of Cincy BT
« Reply #56 on: October 18, 2015, 06:06:47 PM »

Wait - Travis, don't we have a dice roller on these boards?
Lets find out
Rolled 2d6 : 6, 4, total 10


It has now been installed.  to run it do ['roll] xdy [/roll], removing the ' mark
« Last Edit: October 18, 2015, 06:16:15 PM by Riegien »
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Hat

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Re: Future of Cincy BT
« Reply #57 on: October 18, 2015, 07:42:35 PM »

Good to know that the roller works.  So rolling waits on at least avatar creation and potentially details around factions at least for picking which of the rolls to use.

Rob: In general, do you want people to select factions before or after rolling dice?  It's an advantage to pick afterwards, but it's consistent for everyone.
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phlop

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Re: Future of Cincy BT
« Reply #58 on: October 18, 2015, 07:51:18 PM »

Rob, not sure if this has been brought up. In force generation, it has "roll 4 times discarding identical rolls. Three of the rolls will be kept, and two discarded."

Are we rolling 4 times or 5?
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Timberwolfd

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Re: Future of Cincy BT
« Reply #59 on: October 18, 2015, 11:07:56 PM »

Will there be any way to improve unit pilot/gunnery?

From prior experience, improving P/G scores using the Warchest system is extremely problematic.  It's either too expensive to bother with, or so cheap that everybody spends the entirety of their WCP on upgrading their pilots first thing, hoping that they'll win the first fight so they can continue the campaign.  The balance point in the middle involves tracking kills and missions per pilot, which is antithetical to the idea of a low-paperwork campaign.  I'm willing to hear ideas, but I'd much prefer to not have pilot advancement as a part of this.

Okay, here is an idea. Each victory grants 1 piloting and 1 gunnery improvement point (or just one point for both would probably be better).  All units in a point must be upgraded simultaneously (both vehicles/ASFs/5 troopers/5 protomech pilots/...) and each unit consumes an improvement point.  Improvements are lost upon unit/pilot death. All units in a star must be improved to the same piloting/gunnery before a unit can receive an improvement to the next better piloting/gunnery. Unit and star commanders may be one level of improvement ahead of their star/command.

[Edit]
Test roll
This dice roll has been tampered with!
This dice roll has been tampered with!
Rolled 5d6 : 1, 4, 2, 4, 5, total 16
This dice roll has been tampered with!
Rolled 5d6 : 2, 4, 6, 2, 4, total 18

[Edit 2]
Note: After the roll, the roll is converted to block quote, which we can edit.  That means to keep it secure you will need to do it on your posts.   If we edit the post, even without changing the roll, the tamper will warning will flag as well. Luckily it can just be a copy and paste bit of code.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2015, 11:21:09 PM by Timberwolfd »
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