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[Ad Hoc]

On your custom rolls that miss TN, have you been adding the time a second time? Because customizations are always completed, but if TN is missed then it takes twice as long to get it done. Plus all custom on mech is done on 1 TN for whole modification. Ex. adding armor to all locations and adding JJ but removing 3 HS, you use time for all but use the highest TN. If you miss it then all the time is doubled. Tech gains xp based on that one TN roll.   

I am aware that if I group them and do the customizations at same time in one go then they all would get doubled(if failed) and have 1 set TN

The failed ones are getting their times doubled and added in im just doing it on calc and notepad then adjusting the techs availability time based on all of them.

The way I am doing it is so I dont have to post 5+ more customization posts per mech as well as the tech availability on each one

They are being done individually then moving onto the next 1 so I can try to have a chance of cutting down time to get the mechs back to the unit faster (hence why the tn are 8 for most of them as it approaches or is after 3/1 in game)

If I have to I will go back to posting 1 customization per post so theres no confusion or I could do it like this and people now have an undeerstanding of what its being done with multiple rolls instead of 1 roll.

I had a feeling after I did the second mech someone would ask about it lol I shouldve put something in the first customization thread explaining I guess.

But on your last custom of trebuchet you rolled for each item seperate and claimed xp for each roll over TN. The whole list should have been done with 1 TN, the highest needed. Then figure xp for for that 1 roll not each location. And the time figured of whether that roll pasted or not.

[Ice]

On your custom rolls that miss TN, have you been adding the time a second time? Because customizations are always completed, but if TN is missed then it takes twice as long to get it done. Plus all custom on mech is done on 1 TN for whole modification. Ex. adding armor to all locations and adding JJ but removing 3 HS, you use time for all but use the highest TN. If you miss it then all the time is doubled. Tech gains xp based on that one TN roll.  

I am aware that if I group them and do the customizations at same time in one go then they all would get doubled(if failed) and have 1 set TN

The failed ones are getting their times doubled and added in im just doing it on calc and notepad then adjusting the techs availability time based on all of them.

The way I am doing it is so I dont have to post 5+ more customization posts per mech as well as the tech availability on each one

They are being done individually then moving onto the next 1 so I can try to have a chance of cutting down time to get the mechs back to the unit faster (hence why the tn are 8 for most of them as it approaches or is after 3/1 in game)

If I have to I will go back to posting 1 customization per post so theres no confusion or I could do it like this and people now have an undeerstanding of what its being done with multiple rolls instead of 1 roll.

I had a feeling after I did the second mech someone would ask about it lol I shouldve put something in the first customization thread explaining I guess.

But on your last custom of trebuchet you rolled for each item seperate and claimed xp for each roll over TN. The whole list should have been done with 1 TN, the highest needed. Then figure xp for for that 1 roll not each location. And the time figured of whether that roll pasted or not.

again im not doing them at same time..

im doing them 1 by 1 in sequence as each finishes if i wanted to do them all at once then i would use 1 TN roll with highest tn and time for all if it fails then i double the time for all of them

i threw them all on the same post to save myself from having to copy paste 7 more times

2 posts covered what i would have done in 14 posts

sequence of events customization 1, pass or fail calc time done calc xp if any, move to next after customization finishes roll for pass or fail etc..just because its on the same post doesnt mean im doing them..like i explained if it has another roll attempt by it then it is going to be done seperate..there is no rule stating that if i customize at any time i have to do all my customizations on the same roll or at same time..there is one to the contrary that says if i plan to do them at same time they must have highest overall tn and the time is doubled if i fail for all times..

idk how else to explain it

now the total time did look off to me since ive looked at it further considering just glancing at it 11 days of work means it would have been over 3/14 since it started 3/3 not 3/13 was that what you noticed or was it just the fact of the stuff being all on same post

is there something else i am missing here rob?

but ill do it this way ill copy paste them one by one if its really necessary

[Ice]

this sequence of rolls are all directly from original post

SGT   Meagan Kinnar   Mech Tech Veteran

assigned to trebuchet

INSTALL JJ RL 720 min TN 8+ - This dice roll has been tampered with!
Rolled 2d6 : 4, 5, total 9

SGT   Meagan Kinnar   Mech Tech Veteran 14.25 hrs used split between 3/3-3/4(6.25hrs)
SGT   Lowell Metaxas  Mech Tech Veteran 28.75 hrs used split between 3/6-3/14 (4hrs 45min)
SGT   Richard Vlard   Mech Tech Regular 4.5 hrs used split between 3/12(4.5 hrs)
SGT   Luke Cooper     Mech Tech Veteran 0 hrs used split between 3/5

-tech xp-

SGT    Meagan Kinnar     Mech Tech Veteran   16(gained 1xp)
SGT    Lowell Metaxas  Mech Tech Veteran   4
SGT    Richard Vlard   Mech Tech Regular   16
SGT    Luke Cooper   Mech Tech Veteran   0

[Ice]

SGT   Meagan Kinnar   Mech Tech Veteran

assigned to trebuchet

INSTALL JJ RL 720 min TN 8+ - This dice roll has been tampered with!
Rolled 2d6 : 1, 5, total 6

failed new time 1440 min(3days)

SGT   Meagan Kinnar   Mech Tech Veteran 30.25 hrs used split between 3/4-3/7(6.25 hrs)
SGT   Lowell Metaxas  Mech Tech Veteran 28.75 hrs used split between 3/6-3/14 (4hrs 45min)
SGT   Richard Vlard   Mech Tech Regular 4.5 hrs used split between 3/12(4.5 hrs)
SGT   Luke Cooper     Mech Tech Veteran 0 hrs used split between 3/5

-tech xp-

SGT    Meagan Kinnar     Mech Tech Veteran   16
SGT    Lowell Metaxas  Mech Tech Veteran   4
SGT    Richard Vlard   Mech Tech Regular   16
SGT    Luke Cooper   Mech Tech Veteran   0

[Ice]

SGT   Meagan Kinnar   Mech Tech Veteran

assigned to trebuchet

INSTALL JJ RL 720 min TN 8+ - This dice roll has been tampered with!
Rolled 2d6 : 4, 4, total 8

passed 720 min (1.5 days)

SGT   Meagan Kinnar   Mech Tech Veteran 18.25 hrs used split between 3/7-3/9(2.25 hrs)
SGT   Lowell Metaxas  Mech Tech Veteran 28.75 hrs used split between 3/6-3/14 (4hrs 45min)
SGT   Richard Vlard   Mech Tech Regular 4.5 hrs used split between 3/12(4.5 hrs)
SGT   Luke Cooper     Mech Tech Veteran 0 hrs used split between 3/5

-tech xp-

SGT    Meagan Kinnar     Mech Tech Veteran   16
SGT    Lowell Metaxas  Mech Tech Veteran   4
SGT    Richard Vlard   Mech Tech Regular   16
SGT    Luke Cooper   Mech Tech Veteran   0

[Ice]

SGT   Meagan Kinnar   Mech Tech Veteran

assigned to trebuchet

INSTALL JJ RL 720 min TN 8+ - This dice roll has been tampered with!
Rolled 2d6 : 5, 6, total 11

passed 1.5 days

SGT   Meagan Kinnar   Mech Tech Veteran 14.25 hrs used split between 3/9-3/10 (6.25 hrs)
SGT   Lowell Metaxas  Mech Tech Veteran 28.75 hrs used split between 3/6-3/14 (4hrs 45min)
SGT   Richard Vlard   Mech Tech Regular 4.5 hrs used split between 3/12(4.5 hrs)
SGT   Luke Cooper     Mech Tech Veteran 0 hrs used split between 3/5

-tech xp-

SGT    Meagan Kinnar     Mech Tech Veteran   19(gained 3xp)
SGT    Lowell Metaxas  Mech Tech Veteran   4
SGT    Richard Vlard   Mech Tech Regular   16
SGT    Luke Cooper   Mech Tech Veteran   0

[Ice]

SGT   Meagan Kinnar   Mech Tech Veteran

assigned to trebuchet

ADD ARMOR LA(5) 300 min (doubled) TN 7+ - This dice roll has been tampered with!
Rolled 2d6 : 5, 5, total 10

passed 300 min (5 hrs)

SGT   Meagan Kinnar   Mech Tech Veteran 11.25 hrs used split between 3/10-3/11 (3.25 hrs)
SGT   Lowell Metaxas  Mech Tech Veteran 28.75 hrs used split between 3/6-3/14 (4hrs 45min)
SGT   Richard Vlard   Mech Tech Regular 4.5 hrs used split between 3/12(4.5 hrs)
SGT   Luke Cooper     Mech Tech Veteran 0 hrs used split between 3/5

-tech xp-

SGT    Meagan Kinnar     Mech Tech Veteran   22(gained 3xp)
SGT    Lowell Metaxas  Mech Tech Veteran   4
SGT    Richard Vlard   Mech Tech Regular   16
SGT    Luke Cooper   Mech Tech Veteran   0

[Ice]

SGT   Meagan Kinnar   Mech Tech Veteran

assigned to trebuchet

ADD ARMOR RA(6) 360 min (doubled) TN 7+ - This dice roll has been tampered with!
Rolled 2d6 : 2, 6, total 8

passed 360 min (6 hrs)

SGT   Meagan Kinnar   Mech Tech Veteran 9.25 hrs used split between 3/11-3/12 (1.25 hrs)
SGT   Lowell Metaxas  Mech Tech Veteran 28.75 hrs used split between 3/6-3/14 (4hrs 45min)
SGT   Richard Vlard   Mech Tech Regular 4.5 hrs used split between 3/12(4.5 hrs)
SGT   Luke Cooper     Mech Tech Veteran 0 hrs used split between 3/5

-tech xp-

SGT    Meagan Kinnar     Mech Tech Veteran   23(gained 1xp)
SGT    Lowell Metaxas  Mech Tech Veteran   4
SGT    Richard Vlard   Mech Tech Regular   16
SGT    Luke Cooper   Mech Tech Veteran   0

[Ice]

SGT   Meagan Kinnar   Mech Tech Veteran

assigned to trebuchet

ADD ARMOR LL( 480 min (doubled) TN 7+ - This dice roll has been tampered with!
Rolled 2d6 : 6, 4, total 10

passed 1 day

SGT   Meagan Kinnar   Mech Tech Veteran 9.25 hrs used split between 3/12-3/13 (1.25 hrs)
SGT   Lowell Metaxas  Mech Tech Veteran 28.75 hrs used split between 3/6-3/14 (4hrs 45min)
SGT   Richard Vlard   Mech Tech Regular 4.5 hrs used split between 3/12(4.5 hrs)
SGT   Luke Cooper     Mech Tech Veteran 0 hrs used split between 3/5

-tech xp-

SGT    Meagan Kinnar     Mech Tech Veteran   26(gained 3xp)
SGT    Lowell Metaxas  Mech Tech Veteran   4
SGT    Richard Vlard   Mech Tech Regular   16
SGT    Luke Cooper   Mech Tech Veteran   0

[Ice]

SGT   Meagan Kinnar   Mech Tech Veteran

assigned to trebuchet

ADD ARMOR RL( 480 min (doubled) TN 7+ - This dice roll has been tampered with!
Rolled 2d6 : 6, 5, total 11

passed 1 day

SGT   Meagan Kinnar   Mech Tech Veteran 9.25 hrs used split between 3/13-3/14 (1.25 hrs)
SGT   Lowell Metaxas  Mech Tech Veteran 28.75 hrs used split between 3/6-3/14 (4hrs 45min)
SGT   Richard Vlard   Mech Tech Regular 4.5 hrs used split between 3/12(4.5 hrs)
SGT   Luke Cooper     Mech Tech Veteran 0 hrs used split between 3/5

-tech xp-

SGT    Meagan Kinnar     Mech Tech Veteran   30(gained 4xp)
SGT    Lowell Metaxas  Mech Tech Veteran   4
SGT    Richard Vlard   Mech Tech Regular   16
SGT    Luke Cooper   Mech Tech Veteran   0

[Ad Hoc]

I'm saying they need posted separately. I'm saying you know what you are going to customize on mech. What is supposed to happen is you choose a tech and list all that you want done to the mech ie.. add armor to these locations, add 4 jj, add med laser here etc. Calculate time for all and TN for each. Choose highest TN and roll once against that TN. If it passes, all is done in your calculated time, check MOS of that roll and add that much XP to tech (not for each individual item). If TN fails, double the time for all and no XP gained. It is one roll for all items being changed at this time for each mech.

I understand what you are doing and why you are doing it. To try and keep the time to minimum. But unfortunately, I don't think that is the way the rules work. Plus your techs are gaining more xp than intended through customizing rules by separating each item into its own roll.

[Darrian Wolffe]

OK, folks, hang on and back off, please.

Mike: I realize you probably don't intend it, but your tone is coming off pretty bad here, and I'm unsurprised Brandon is feeling defensive.  I appreciate what you're trying to do, but please drop it now.

Brandon: Mike is correct.  However, the mistake being made is not your fault.  Go back to this post.  When I said, "There's two really core ways to do a customization", I meant it: there are only two ways to do a customization.  You can either do everything in one go, or you can separate out the "removal" and the "installation" steps into two customizations.  That's as far as a customization can be broken down, specifically because of the issue regarding Tech XP and deliberately "farming" tiny easy customizations to gain the XP**.  However, I'm aware that it's not as clear as it should be in the rules, and I can see how you got from point A ("the customization can be broken down into 2 different jobs") to point B ("the customization can be broken down into each job being a separate customization process) in the absence of a completely clear rule.  In my own defense, StratOps is hardly clear on it either, and to a large degree I basically copy-pasted the StratOps customization section over to our rules.  Therefore, the customizations you have already made have already been made; the results and XP gained will not be changed.  From this point forward however, please keep this post in mind.

**There is no good way to regulate this, short of a human GM stepping in and saying "no".  I'm attempting to let people know my intent here so they can play according to it without the necessity of my having to review literally every Tech roll made in the campaign.  Other ways to handle it are things like "customizations under XXX minutes don't give XP", or "A tech can only make a single customization per month."  I dislike both of those, but those are possibilities if I feel people are abusing customizations to farm Tech XP.  I'm aware that was not your intent.

[Ice]

OK, folks, hang on and back off, please.

Mike: I realize you probably don't intend it, but your tone is coming off pretty bad here, and I'm unsurprised Brandon is feeling defensive.  I appreciate what you're trying to do, but please drop it now.

Brandon: Mike is correct.  However, the mistake being made is not your fault.  Go back to this post.  When I said, "There's two really core ways to do a customization", I meant it: there are only two ways to do a customization.  You can either do everything in one go, or you can separate out the "removal" and the "installation" steps into two customizations.  That's as far as a customization can be broken down, specifically because of the issue regarding Tech XP and deliberately "farming" tiny easy customizations to gain the XP**.  However, I'm aware that it's not as clear as it should be in the rules, and I can see how you got from point A ("the customization can be broken down into 2 different jobs") to point B ("the customization can be broken down into each job being a separate customization process) in the absence of a completely clear rule.  In my own defense, StratOps is hardly clear on it either, and to a large degree I basically copy-pasted the StratOps customization section over to our rules.  Therefore, the customizations you have already made have already been made; the results and XP gained will not be changed.  From this point forward however, please keep this post in mind.

**There is no good way to regulate this, short of a human GM stepping in and saying "no".  I'm attempting to let people know my intent here so they can play according to it without the necessity of my having to review literally every Tech roll made in the campaign.  Other ways to handle it are things like "customizations under XXX minutes don't give XP", or "A tech can only make a single customization per month."  I dislike both of those, but those are possibilities if I feel people are abusing customizations to farm Tech XP.  I'm aware that was not your intent.

i can see the point thats being made and will go with it but i wanted it set in stone. there was nothing stating the true nature of how it was intended as you said and this is how you want it done. that is fine by me now that its been set.

this is the first time using this in a campaign and honestly looking at it doing it the way i was to me is like telling my techs to focus on one job not multi task all at once do it right we meet time and get units back to front lines, do it wrong its more time u take before the next thing can be done. thats how i viewed it and its real life to be honest you want something done focus on one thing instead of multi tasking although multi tasking can get stuff done as well. (maybe its a mind set thing and i know its battletech real life thinking doesnt always come into play with this game.) It just makes more sense to me to try and get them done to get back to front lines. I mean my TN were 8s FFS. I dont even know what i need to get veteran techs to elites since the change. I am not even really sure how any of that works now right off hand. THis is partially why the things i do are the way they are done. This is almost all new when it comes to spending the xp and I have to try and read through book after book and when its not stated someplace then this happens. As i said this was all about getting units done as fast as possible considering 2 mechs were down and 3 more needed customization or repairs to sell it.

my issues comes down to this now

i only have x days weeks hrs etc before our next combat call in is that actually technically known or is it that random as far as we should be thinking? if im assumed to know say hey were going on the offensive on x date or is it hey we need u now go or is it both? I just dont know how to look at it. i mean if the time is there then why not do a small customization if its within the time frame if we know. its at that part of a game where do I have to act like i dont know so its in spirit of the game. Like i mean im not trying to meta game or farm its just idk any of this stuff off hand or had the exposure yet to get used to it and when i read something and it says no where in it for one way or other there is gonna be some push back on my end and obviously others based on view point.

in these instances i have x amount of time for repairs or customizations i only want to do enough customizations to cover that time is that not like breaking down the customizations if i end up doing more later? I mean the whole point is partial customizations because of time constraints. AS long as they are done in one TN im guessing? How does the TN 12 or 2 work then? is it randomly applied over the unit i mean it could be a weapon or hs etc? thats kind of one other reason i was doing it so its clear where i would get the +/- if i get 2 or 12 and it made no sense to me as to why it wouldnt want to be specified (again im guessing mindset)

[Timberwolfd]

[Tone: not intended to blame or otherwise lecture. Intended as analysis.]

Some of the problems here are because of the reduced cost of failure we are using. In universe, according to StratOps, customization reduces quality even if it succeeds. This provides a counter-pressure on many small customizations because the mech will be unmaintainable. When we went to BMR for maintenance, we also got rid of quality and the natural brake on small customizations.

The cost of customization in terms of time and availability are why most canon units did their customizations on reserve mechs or between campaigns. Think Archangel from Avanti's Angels in Double-Blind, Yen-lo-Wang in Warrior and Blood of Kerensky trilogies, etc.

BTW, I will never try to type Yen-lo-Wang on a cell phone... Dang autocorrect is a PITA.

[Ad Hoc]

Brandon,
I am truely sorry if what I was saying came across badly. It was not my intention in what or how I said things. I do not want to have bad relationship with any of the members of our group. I was only trying to help with understanding of the rules as it was explained to me.

Again I apologize to Brandon.