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[ItsTehPope]

Did we have a specific timeline condensed of our travels/stops from Tukyyaid to our current location?  Can't see to find it for some reason.

How detailed do you need?  Approximately, we left Tukayyid on 1 June, and got to Skye around 15 July.  The Rangers spent until early August on Skye, then left for New Earth.  You arrived on New Earth at the tail end of September, and stayed there until 7 November, when you signed the contract and departed for Vrana.

That's close enough for contact maths, thank you

[Hat]

Ok, per your request, here's what I've put together with a limited focus on just a few skills.

Proposal:
Option 1:
Command XP
Characters earn Command XP = to the number of unit missions (not solo) played in each contract they take part in.  Command XP can only be spent to increase Admin, Bureaucracy and Negotiation.

Contract / Command XP / Lance Start
Pokey /3 / Mudd (Dancer), Breisacher (Crusher)
Themyscira / 5 / Brightsword (Bright), Wilhelm (Reaper)
Running Horse / 6 / Hartman (Freya), Kronwall (Skaraborg)
Slammer / 3 / Atayde (Midnight)
Henhouse / 5 / Cherikov (Wolverine)
Kestrel / 5 / Malthus (Phoenix)
Sudeten / 3 / Moon (Ice)
Liber   / 3 / Hitzig (Dragon)
Justice / 2
Tukayyid / 3
Angel / TBD / Roskakoriinnen (Devil)
38 XP starting at Pokey

Starting Values
Breisacher (A: 0, B: 1, CS: 1, N: 1) [Pokey]
Mudd (A: 0, B: 4, CS: 1, N: 1) [Pokey]
Wilhelm (A: 1, B: Nil, CS: 2, N: 2) [Themyscira]
Brightsword (A: Nil, B: Nil, CS: 2, N: Nil) [Themyscira]
Hartman (A: Nil, B: 2, CS: 4, N: 2) [Running Horse]
Kronwall (A: 1, B: 2, CS: 2, N: 0 ) NOTE: No PC creation thread I could find [Running Horse]
Atayde (A: 2, B: 2, CS: 3, N: 4) [Slammer]
Cerikov (A: 0, B: 0, CS: 2, N: 2) [Henhouse]
Malthus (A: 1, B: 1, CS: 3, N: 1) [Kestrel]
Moon (A: 1, B: 0, CS: 3, N: 2) [Sudaten]
Hitzig (A: 5, B: 3, CS: 3, N: 5) [Liber]
Roskakoriinnen (A: Nil, B: Nil, CS: 2, N: Nil) [Angel]

Notes
While several entries are listed at 0 in Google Sheets, they're actually Nil
Mudd bought Admin to 1 (7 XP)
Atayde spent 21 XP to go from Admin 2 to 3.

Under the proposal above, here's how much command XP people would get:
Mudd: 38
Breisacher: 38
Brightsword: 35
Wilhelm: 35
Hartman: 30
Kronwall: 30
Atayde: 24
Cherikov: 21
Malthus: 16
Moon: 11
Hitzig: 8
Roskakoriinnen: 0

If Mudd focused all of his Command XP on Admin, he'd be +2 up from +0 and able to make +3 after this contract.  That would leave his Bureaucracy and Negotiation untouched, and he's been around since the campaign's beginning.  Brightsword's 35 would mean all 3 Command skills could be at +0 with 1 closing on +1 having only missed Pokey.

Career XP
I would suggest an additional XP award following the same criteria as Command XP.  In this case, both Mudd and Breisacher who have completed 10 contracts and been active as Mercenaries since May of 3044 (almost 9 years gametime) would go from CS: 1 to CS: 3 at a cost of 35 XP, so with 3 left over.  To reach +4 assuming 3.8 XP on average and needing another 25, it would be 7 more contracts.

Rationale
The goal is to keep things simple rather than add a bunch of extra book keeping.  The advantage to the above is that you can always calculate it if there's ever any question and you have the baseline for all PCs, so it can be corrected as needed.  Through the entire campaign other than myself and maybe Steve, no one has spent on any of the 4 skills mentioned.  Honestly, I'd be almost willing to bet that virtually no one has spent on any skills outside of P/G and maybe Scrounge since generating their character.  So while I agree the goal is to avoid making letting everyone get elite skills unless they've been around forever and have earned gobs of XP, the way the campaign is structured I don't see that happening.  With the frequency that other skill rolls get used, I don't think anyone would consider it a difficult choice to select Admin, Bureaucracy, Career: Soldier, First Aid, Leadership, Negotiation or Small Arms against Piloting, Gunnery, Scrounge or an SPA. Tactics might depend on whether a PC is up the chain of command and even then I think it loses.  For most PCs Strategy only comes into play when there is a reinforcement lance to select.  And to be fair, I don't think I've ever heard anyone say they would have brought in X lance except they'll arrive too late.  There's also a certain homogeneity with every PC lance except Devil having either a 3 or 4 strategy.  In general, this all works fine it just means PCs are essentially only changing a few skills and SPAs barring aging or catastrophic events.  The Apocalyse Rising Campaign made greater use of the broader skill set and so it made sense that people would invest more in other areas.  Different campaigns, different flavors.

I don't think the numbers listed above break anything, but with the request to essentially make people make choices, Option 2 below puts more skin in the game.

Option 2:
As option 1 above but with the following change: Command and Career XP can only cover as much XP as your current level.  So assuming you have enough C/C XP available, here are the costs:

Level 0 (from Nil): Level Nil is 0 XP, Level 0 is 10 XP, C/C XP max: 0, Real XP cost: 10
Level 1 (from Level 0): Level 0 is 10 XP, Level 1 is 7 XP, so if you have the C/C XP, can pay to get to Level 1 with C/C XP entirely
Level 2 (from Level 1): Level 1 is 7 XP, Level 2 is 14 XP, C/C XP max: 7, Real XP cost: 7
Level 3 (from Level 2): Level 2 is 14 XP, Level 3 is 21 XP, C/C XP max: 14, Real XP cost: 7
etc.

All this assumes you have the C/C XP available, it costs you 10 Real XP to get to level 0, but level 1 will effectively be free and then 7 Real XP for each bonus after assuming you have the C/C XP available.

This means you get a benefit, but you still have to invest something.

In terms of what it would mean to Atayde, for simplicity sake I would leave his starting point as it is and not look to get XP back on Admin 3, just have the options available moving forward.

[Darrian Wolffe]

Excellent post.  Let me think about it.  Regardless of anything else, it's another number people have to track, but it's only one number and it seems fairly simple to calculate and use.  Nicely thought out.

[Hat]

Excellent post.  Let me think about it.  Regardless of anything else, it's another number people have to track, but it's only one number and it seems fairly simple to calculate and use.  Nicely thought out.

Thanks.  Technically 2 numbers if you do both the Command and Career XP, but it's not that much and as mentioned can be recalculated at any time.  Any player not wishing to advance those skills never really has to worry about it.

[Black Omega]

Hat, I thought that might get your attention.  Please see the following from PM to Rob:

Rob,
Is it permissible for a tech to spend xp on edge?  And could that edge be used to save his life in a combat situation?

Absolutely.

This is correct.  Spending Edge to gain or force a reroll in a combat situation where the Tech is piloting a Mech is functionally the only way that a Tech can interact with Edge.  So, for example, Reaper's Tech is piloting a Mech in his Star League Cache mission.  Because the Tech is piloting a Mech, any Edge that Tech has can be used to reroll or force a reroll.

Because we don't track Techs to the degree that we track Mechwarriors, however, this is the only way that Techs can interact with Edge.  It could not be used, for example, to force an enemy Firestarter shooting at a Tech squad to force a reroll of the attack roll (the Tech is only part of the squad, not the whole thing), and it cannot be burnt to save the Tech's life, because the Tech has no chance to suffer a long-term injury (the chance of LTI is the price of getting to use Edge to save your life, and LTI only affects MechWarriors).  And Techs very definitely cannot spend Edge on rerolls to repair things, because then we'd have to define "how often" Edge can be used, and that's a giant can of worms given that MechWarriors can play in (theoretically) multiple scenarios per in-game day, and they explicitly get their full Edge allotment in each one (and that one isn't on me - that's how Edge in BattleTech play has ALWAYS worked going back to FASA).

I think we visited the topic once before, after an SLDF Cache mission, where the same question was asked in theory.  But I'm unsure if we ever put the answer into the rules.  I'll note it for inclusion in the upcoming revision, since we've got enough clarifications floating about the forums to require one.

So, Rob, to clarify the above, one can only use edge for a tech that is actively piloting a mech [and they have edge to use] and that techs in infantry situations cannot use edge [similar to not being able to re-roll repairs or mods].  If this is the case then I will formerly withdraw the edge spent on my 2 techs at this time.  This ruling does not prevent my buying edge now or in the future for my techs, it just limits what I can use it for.  I did not mean to cause any problems with the rest of the group.  I was just looking at how to protect the techs in my employ in a very unusual situation.  I took your initial answer "absolutely" as gospel.  I did not realize that my question was somehow unclear or misleading.

[Hat]

What is the cost of Clan FF and Endo?  BMR (revised) has the cost of clan weapons and equipment, but there are no clan specific costs or multipliers for armor or internal structure.

[Darrian Wolffe]

What is the cost of Clan FF and Endo?  BMR (revised) has the cost of clan weapons and equipment, but there are no clan specific costs or multipliers for armor or internal structure.

Clan Endo is - surprisingly - the same price as IS Endo.

Clan FF is 20,000 CB per ton.

[Hat]

Ok, I’m trying to figure out how the contract score process works and have been looking at the rules.  P. 46 of the rules cover it. +2 for each successful mission, +1 more if there are no enemies remaining. It states it subtracts 2 for a failed mission, -1 more if there are no PCs left on the battlefield at end of play.

The current AAR shows 4/4 after mission 2 (2 successes, 2 points each). So far so good. Mission 3 notes no impact on contract score. Np, doesn’t count towards the contract. Got it. After mission 4 (contract mission 3), we’re listed as 4/6. This is where the rules or our score should be modified. The rules state we lose 2 points rather than we get 0. I understand that 4 is 2 points less than 3 successful missions. By strict rules, the max score after 3 missions is 9, with a typical score of 6.

A bit further down, the rules explicitly state what is required for contract success - # of missions * 1.25 round up = min score required. So 1 mission = 2 pts, 2 missions = 3 pts, 3 missions = 4 pts, 4 missions = 5 points, 5 missions = 7 points and 6 missions = 8 pts.

With a -2 for a failed mission, RAW means that with std victory conditions, any contract less than 6 missions fails, as a failed mission negates a std victory. So if Mission 1 succeeds and Mission 2 fails, we’d be at 0 points, 2 after Mission 3, 4 after Mission 4, 6 after Mission 5 and 8 after Mission 6.

I believe based on the AAR totals, the intent is 0 points for a failed mission, -1 for no PCs on the field at end of battle. It would mean losing a single mission can still result in a net contract success as long as there are at least 3 missions, but 2 lost missions is a contract failure unless you get to 6 missions.  The penalties for a failed contract are a 15 point swing in Dragoon rating (-10 instead of +5) and a 5 year ban from working for that employer.

Given you’re talking about updating the rules, this seems fortuitous timing. That or the AAR should reflect that we’re at 2 points.

If I’m missing something, let me know.

[Hat]

One other related question, would it be possible to spend Edg on a reroll in the case where the mission Is unplayable?  I’m thinking it is then not available during the scenario, so still a limited resource and by definition the one calling for rerolls has to be present.

[Darrian Wolffe]

Ok, I’m trying to figure out how the contract score process works and have been looking at the rules.  P. 46 of the rules cover it. +2 for each successful mission, +1 more if there are no enemies remaining. It states it subtracts 2 for a failed mission, -1 more if there are no PCs left on the battlefield at end of play.

I believe the contract stuff was updated in AtB since we started the campaign and our written rules just didn't keep up. You all show as having 4/6 points available on the Briefing Tab.  The current values in AtB are: 2 for success, +1 for clean sweep, 0 for fail, -1 for OPFOR clean sweep, -1 for minor breach, mission fail for major breach.

I'll put a note in for an update to the campaign rules. 

would it be possible to spend Edg on a reroll in the case where the mission Is unplayable?

No. Manage your rerolls better.  In this specific case, it was caused specifically because you were trying to screw over the OPFOR as hard as you could with as many rerolls as possible, and the RNG bit back. Had you kept a roll in reserve this almost certainly wouldn't have happened (ie, only use 4 of 5 rolls), and had you accepted the weather condition which penalized the OPFOR as being "good enough" (reroll 3), this definitely wouldn't have happened.  The mechanics are there to save you from yourselves already; no additional safety net is required. Only different choices.

[Black Omega]

Eva Ly - Elite Hyperspace Navigator - Unit

Curious, Rob.  The good Lt above is rated elite Hyper Nav with 3+.  Is the 3+ skill level or target Number?  How does she compare with my mechwarrior Jeff Smith who rolled up with Hyper Nav 4+ ? 
Thanks

[Ice]

Do we have something clarifying if masc is considered class e or f or if its able to be added as just a component

Or direction of what book what clarify it

[Darrian Wolffe]

Do we have something clarifying if masc is considered class e or f or if its able to be added as just a component

You're thinking of TSM, which is a different myomer type.

MASC is a a piece of equipment. Adding it could be a Class C or D refit, depending on the specifics of the customization.

[Ice]

Do we have something clarifying if masc is considered class e or f or if its able to be added as just a component

You're thinking of TSM, which is a different myomer type.

MASC is a a piece of equipment. Adding it could be a Class C or D refit, depending on the specifics of the customization.

Good to know now because there was discussion before that led me and deadly both to believe it was factory required or I would've added it in the last custom 

[Darrian Wolffe]

Good to know now because there was discussion before that led me and deadly both to believe it was factory required or I would've added it in the last custom 

As far as I can tell, MASC almost certainly falls under the Category C or D.  I genuinely don't recall off-hand if MASC *must* be installed all in 1 location, or if it can be split between locations.

If it's split between locations then it's a D.  If it isn't, then it's a C.  The rules have nothing else regarding MASC at all, but there's ALSO the possibility it's a Class E (factory) because Xotl's dev notes on the customizations section have "anything that screws with myomers" as the note for Class E, and MASC is a piece of equipment, but one that screws with myomers.  I'll run it up the errata pole and see what happens.