We did that with a clan campaign several campaigns back. Chasing down some mysterious Minnesota Tribe or something like that. Each had a unit with different mechs. Bidding taking place for the mission. Really enjoyable.
We did that with a clan campaign several campaigns back. Chasing down some mysterious Minnesota Tribe or something like that. Each had a unit with different mechs. Bidding taking place for the mission. Really enjoyable.
Since there's a desire for a Clan campaign, I'm actually seriously considering bringing this general concept back. I've had some time to think about what went wrong and what worked with it, and I've got a revision 6 ruleset that I've been working on, on and off for a few years now.
If - IF - I were to do it, it would either end up being set sometime prior to REVIVAL (3030-ish), or as modern Clan forces in the Dark Age. The big change are:
1) Everyone runs their own force (with a cool PC commander)
2) Players are randomly paired against each other each game
3) Players bid against the other person in the pair, loser plays OPFOR
4) EVERYBODY plays the same scenario (as in, each pair of players)
5) The highest VP-scoring player decides where the campaign branches to next
6) Between games is Warchest-style maintenance/logistics
2) Players are randomly paired against each other each game
3) Players bid against the other person in the pair, loser plays OPFOR
Question: Would Omni mechs be allowed in non-canon configurations or would we be limited to published canon configs?
I hadn't thought about it. My initial reaction would be the former, with the following restriction:
Repairing a stock unit: Unit tonnage in WarChest Points (Unit tonnage/2 for units with the easy to repair/maintain quirk)
Making a unit into a custom: 5 Warchest points per system added or removed
Repairing a custom unit: Regular Cost x2 (x1.75 for units with the easy to repair/maintain quirk)
Making an OmniUnit into a custom configuration: 2 Warchest points per system added or removed
Repairing an OmniUnit in a custom configuration: Unit tonnage x1.25 (Unit tonnage for units with the easy to repair/maintain quirk)
That way there's a clear advantage to remaining with a stock config, but it's still better to use a custom Omni than it is to modify a standard unit to custom specs. Something I'd consider would be "each custom unit after the first in a Star takes a small penalty to repair costs" - the more non-standard stuff you have, the harder your Techs have to work. And you can only beat Techs so many times in a Circle of Equals trying to get them to work harder/faster before you experience an unforeseen and unexplainable malfunction in your life support mid-battle.
Okay, follow up question here. Given the Omni mech standard configurations, would a pilot get to use any of the standard configs without costing any warchest points or would he be locked in to one config only?
Since there's a desire for a Clan campaign, I'm actually seriously considering bringing this general concept back. I've had some time to think about what went wrong and what worked with it, and I've got a revision 6 ruleset that I've been working on, on and off for a few years now.
If - IF - I were to do it, it would either end up being set sometime prior to REVIVAL (3030-ish), or as modern Clan forces in the Dark Age. The big change are:
1) Everyone runs their own force (with a cool PC commander)
2) Players are randomly paired against each other each game
3) Players bid against the other person in the pair, loser plays OPFOR
4) EVERYBODY plays the same scenario (as in, each pair of players)
5) The highest VP-scoring player decides where the campaign branches to next
6) Between games is Warchest-style maintenance/logistics
"each custom unit after the first in a Star takes a small penalty to repair costs"One caveat I would propose for custom units, if you have multiple of the same (exact same chassis and config.) unit, the penalties don't stack for maintenance.
Logan, Lucas (my younger son), and I would prefer a character based campaign. If the new idea of campaign is chosen, we are not sure about the one on one games, especially for my youngest son. If the games were 2 on 2, 3 on 3, or 4 on 4 it would be better for us because part of us coming down is for us to play in group games. We can play 1 on 1 games here at home. The other month when we had two different smaller games going was great because the game play went faster and made it more exciting. We will also need help understanding how the Warchest system works and the bidding of forces. We have no problems playing our share of opfor either.
We really enjoy playing with this group and will play in whatever type of campaign that the majority and Rob agree upon.
My comment was that we have some clan's in the campaign. It wouldn't have to be all clan, whatever the GM is planning is great.
Logan, Lucas (my younger son), and I would prefer a character based campaign. If the new idea of campaign is chosen, we are not sure about the one on one games, especially for my youngest son. If the games were 2 on 2, 3 on 3, or 4 on 4 it would be better for us because part of us coming down is for us to play in group games. We can play 1 on 1 games here at home. The other month when we had two different smaller games going was great because the game play went faster and made it more exciting. We will also need help understanding how the Warchest system works and the bidding of forces. We have no problems playing our share of opfor either.
We really enjoy playing with this group and will play in whatever type of campaign that the majority and Rob agree upon.
Anyone else anxiously waiting for Rob to roll this out and let us start picking units? ;D
My two thoughts:This one is relatively easy to address with a "tax" that arrogates a fraction (say 25-50%) of the points above average winnings to the "Unit" for distribution to damaged commands to keep everyone at least somewhat functional. Keep a "bank" reserve for the "Unit" for truly lean games.
1) I am leery of warchest points, as the system either breaks units right off the bad or units get so much that they no longer care about the cost of anything. Yes, a GM can limit this but that often means that limits apply to one command (to steal robs term) and not another as the forces are likely to be damaged at different times. So if we are fie with command turnover then warchest is fine, otherwise dice luck plays a huge roll in starting out. Fun, but once a tipping point is reached then logistics no longer matters.
(granted, this is mostly with merc units, but a command is a command)
My two thoughts:
1) I am leery of warchest points, as the system either breaks units right off the bad or units get so much that they no longer care about the cost of anything. Yes, a GM can limit this but that often means that limits apply to one command (to steal robs term) and not another as the forces are likely to be damaged at different times. So if we are fie with command turnover then warchest is fine, otherwise dice luck plays a huge roll in starting out. Fun, but once a tipping point is reached then logistics no longer matters.
OK, I'm going to assume we're going to do the Clan Warchest thing, though I haven't actually developed the campaign arc yet.
To tide everybody over, here's the current working ruleset. You're welcome to make comments, suggestions, and so forth. I'm under no obligation to make suggested changes, mind, but I will consider every reasonable suggestion.
Will there be any way to improve unit pilot/gunnery?
Thanks for posting the rules. What era, clans and TROs are eligible?
1) What era or eras are under consideration? Or is this being held to a future discussion?
One other question, can we roll the unit composition rolls on our own, need to be witnessed, how do you want to work that?
2) "Each of the other two Stars has a single Star Commander, which must be assigned to a Mech-class unit different from your Avatar."
What does this restriction intend to prevent? For example, if I roll all 6s, and choose all my mechs to be Fire Moth Ks, would this rule force me to select a different variant for 2 mechs such that they are not firemoth K? On a more abstract level, what exactly does different mean?
3) The rules for replacing a unit have you choose a faction appropriate unit, while the rules for force creation have no such restriction. Do these need to be harmonized?
3a) When do you choose which clan your force is a part of?
4) Under replacing an Avatar it states "Star Commander Edge is unchanged." However, there are no rules for Star Commander Edge. What is Star Commander Edge?
Never having played warchest before, is this an accurate summary?
2. Unit creation is completed on a pilot independent force creation. Bidding is done according to pilot adjusted BVs
One other question - with custom units provided by an appropriate logistics score, it's a unit not a point, right? So if you wanted a custom ASF point, it would require at least Priority C for 2 ASF units to be customized.
Next question - for customizing 'mechs, do jump jets count as equipment or motive type?
Rob, will war chest points be able to convert to xp to purchase SPA's at a later time?
For a clan WoR campaign we should probably add proto mech to the rules system. Treat them like battle armor with higher repair costs?
I think the rules are looking pretty good overall. I would like to see the repair of customized units be addressed a little more finely though. Would it cause too much trouble to break customizations into 2 or 3 categories...
Edit: Can we reorganize points after unit generation?
Wait - Travis, don't we have a dice roller on these boards?Lets find out
Will there be any way to improve unit pilot/gunnery?
From prior experience, improving P/G scores using the Warchest system is extremely problematic. It's either too expensive to bother with, or so cheap that everybody spends the entirety of their WCP on upgrading their pilots first thing, hoping that they'll win the first fight so they can continue the campaign. The balance point in the middle involves tracking kills and missions per pilot, which is antithetical to the idea of a low-paperwork campaign. I'm willing to hear ideas, but I'd much prefer to not have pilot advancement as a part of this.
For a clan WoR campaign we should probably add proto mech to the rules system. Treat them like battle armor with higher repair costs?
There was a reason I didn't include them, but I can't remember right now what it is. IIRC it was a combination of "Society Protos are bullshit" and, "the table doesn't have a lot of room to include them as additional options." The latter can be adjusted - most likely by allowing a direct substitution of an ASF point for a ProtoMech point, or allowing you to swap up to 1d3 Mech points for ProtoMech points (Light Mech = 2-4 tons Proto Point; Medium = 5-6 tons; Heavy = 7-8 tons; Assault = 9+ tons). But then we get into the issue of you can mix and match Proto types and masses inside the same Point, and it just gets very complex, very fast.
Protos are cool and add a new dimension to gameplay. They're just complex as hell to implement, and I'm more than a little nervous about stuff like, "everyone replacing all Mechs under 45 tons with points of all Sprites.
Bah, now your putting the kabash on my attempt to run a "saVage coyote" force of mostly protos andsepticimiaepariahs.
John/Drew: could you please let Adam know that his commission will be delayed? I'd send an email, but Yahoo is down right now.
Quote3) The rules for replacing a unit have you choose a faction appropriate unit, while the rules for force creation have no such restriction. Do these need to be harmonized?
Yes, they do. You will be limited by the MUL faction availabiilty for your chosen Clan. Noted for v7.
Quote3a) When do you choose which clan your force is a part of?
Immediately after Avatar Creation, but before the Star Composition Roll. Noted for v7.
Its war of reaving timeframe. The other questions will have to wait for Rob.
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1. Do we start with 30,000 BV or 38,000 BV? Version 6 that's posted says 38, but I thought Rob said 30 today when we spoke.
2. Do the custom units need to match your end force composition? If you get 1 custom unit, but have no 'Mech heavier than a Heavy, can you make a custom Assault, or just Heavy? I'm guessing just Heavy, but want to confirm.
3. For custom units gained through Logistics - how exactly does this work? I thought I was clear, but now I'm not.